I’m a bigger Jenny fan than a Centro fan but I’d probably lean Centro with the Olympic gold and world indoor gold. Would be different if the gap was wider on overall outdoor medals but Centro still keeps that close. Two of our most decorated ever, so yeah give me either.
Agree. MUCH bigger Simpson fan, and that is quite a list of accomplishments she has.
But…. Olympic gold kind of surpasses it all. Id rather have that.
2) Whose career would you have if you could pick one?
Simpson won 4 outdoor medals - 1 WC gold, 2 WC silvers and 1 Olympic bronze and four DL races including 1 DL finale. Her best finish on the yearly 1500 descending order list was 4th.
Centro won 3 outdoor medals -1 WC silver, 1 WC bronze, 1 Olympic gold - 1 world indoor gold and zero Diamond League 1500s. His best finish on the yearly 1500 descending order list was 9th.
In terms of world rankings by TFN, Simpson was 8 times ranked in the top 10 in the world. - 3, 8, 6, 2, 7, 1, 6, 7.
In terms of world rankings by TFN, Centro was five times ranked in the top 10 in the world - 8, 5, 8, 10, 5.
In terms of the NCAA, Simpson won four individual titles (indoor 3k once + 3 steeple titles) and was the NCAA xc runnerup twice in XC. Centro won 1 NCAA title in the 1500 and had a best NCAA xc finish of 10th. Simpson also set NCAA records in the mile, 3000 m, and 5000 m indoors, and the 1500 m, 3000 m steeplechase and 5000 m outdoors. She also held the AR in the steeplechase for a while.
Of course maybe I sholudn't have cited TFN rankings (as they somehow embarrassingly only had him at #5 in 2016 when we had him at #1) but the LRC rankings didn't start until 2014.
Why is there a need for this? They both had amazing careers. They did not race against one another. I am happy that I got to see them bring home gold in big world events (and personally really liked Jenny Simpson having met her a couple of times).
I think World Gold and Olympic gold are equivalent in terms of performance (not in terms of value to one's brand). You are still beating the best in the world that year at that race.
I feel like no one ever mentions Kiprop's doping ban and how that impacts Centro's career. If we retrospectively strip kiprops metals in 2011 and 2013 Centro is upgraded to silver and another gold. That's a hell of a career
And of the two, I believe Centro less likely doped.
I was in NY for the marathon and got to watch runners come in around mi 25 in Central Park. Jenny looked really good. Watching the top E. Africans and then the top Americans come through before her, it was interesting to see everyone's form and how Simpson compared. She is very smooth and efficient. I wonder whether she should have moved up much sooner. Her running on the track plateaued around 2017. I would have moved her up in 2019.
Why is there a need for this? They both had amazing careers. They did not race against one another. I am happy that I got to see them bring home gold in big world events (and personally really liked Jenny Simpson having met her a couple of times).
I agree that they both had amazing careers, and I enjoyed reading Gault's excellent tribute article on them. There isn't a need to debate who had the better career, but I think it's a fun ESPN First Take kind of question during a relatively quiet time in the sport. I'm grateful for the question because it provides fodder for more discussion on running rather than the political content that's been taking up so much space on the board lately.
Here are some more categories for comparison beyond medals:
Longevity Simpson made global championship teams from 2007-2019 (10 teams total). Centro made global championship teams from 2011-2021 (8 teams total). Advantage Simpson
PBs: Point Value and Place on the US All-Time Lists
800: Centro 1185 points, 38th; Simpson 1154 points, 100th
1500: Centro 1239 points, 6th; Simpson 1228 points, 8th
Mile: Centro 1210 points, 8th; Simpson 1213 points, 5th
3,000: Centro 1197 points, 52nd; Simpson 1210 points, 8th
5,000: Centro 1208 points, 15th; Simpson 1170 points, 29th
Steeple: Centro N/A; Simpson 1212 points, 8th
Advantage Simpson. Their 1500 + mile points and standings are just about even, and their respective 3,000 and 5,000 PB advantages cancel each other out (side note: it's interesting to see that Centro's 5,000 PB is better than Simpson's because in that event I think a lot of us associate Simpson with her NCAA record that lasted so long). So it basically comes down to 800 vs steeple, and that's where Simpson has the advantage because she has the distinction of being able to say she was an Olympic and world championship finalist (plus American record holder) in an event other than the 1500.
Note: I didn't include Simpson's late-career half-marathon and marathon PBs because she didn't excel in those events.
American GOAT Ranking
For fun, I dug up the American distance running GOAT voting contest that Let's Run held four years ago. Simpson finished as a close runner-up behind Deena Kastor as the American women's GOAT, and Centro got bounced in the third round in the men's bracket. Advantage Simpson
Overall, I agree with the general consensus that it's very close. Both were outstanding runners, and I'm glad I got to follow their full careers. There's no wrong answer. I'd say Simpson probably had the better overall career, but I'd rather have Centro's because being Olympic champ and the guy who broke the American distance running Olympic gold drought would be so meaningful.
Kudos and congratulations to both for all their achievements.
I think the fact Jenny won World gold makes this question more complicated than it would be if she didn't have a global title. I'm never quite sure what to do about world vs Olympic gold, when you get right down to it. Obviously the Olympics are considered more prestigious and it's true that they occur less often, but it's essentially the same competition for track, the WC / OG events are the global championship that happens to be held in that year. Essentially the same bunch of contenders would be there regardless of what you call the meet. Does Jenny lose points compared to Centro because she happened to hit the summit of the world in her event in an odd-numbered year, instead of an Olympic year? I'm not sure a great argument can be made that doesn't rely heavily on "it's the Olympics though!" and/or "but there are fewer Olympic Games than WC's!" which are both pretty arbitrary if you ask me.
No way WC is same as OG. Even if same competition, there isn’t the same motivation and incentive to win WC, so sometimes the real deals don’t put in 💯 for it. So Centro all the way, winning the OG is harder then WC.
the 2016 Men's 1500m final was hated by many, accepted by some, and loved by a few. unlike 99.99999999% of the population, centro and a few others made it to the finals. when you reach this level of running, you are allowed to run with whatever tactic you want. he played his cards right and got the gold.
I feel like no one ever mentions Kiprop's doping ban and how that impacts Centro's career. If we retrospectively strip kiprops metals in 2011 and 2013 Centro is upgraded to silver and another gold. That's a hell of a career
And of the two, I believe Centro less likely doped.
Centro, who's coach is banned for doping his atheltes, is less likely to have doped that Simpson? Do you hear yourself?
Centro had to compete against African, Europe, Middle East, and the Western hemisphere countries.
Simpson, has the timing luxury of not having to compete against Africa, or the Middle East countries really to speak of.
Really? In 2013 she beat Kipyegon (age 19), Dibaba and Obiri. There were 6 Africans in that race (I'm counting Aregawi) and 2 Russians who were later banned. In the 2016 Olympics there were 5 Africans, not counting Hassan. And in 2017 she beat Dibaba, Semenya, Hassan and 2 Morrocans - finishing only behind Kipyegon.
I think Jenny should get some points for versatility. She won US champs in the 3 different distance events - 1500, steeple and 5000. In 2013 she outkicked Huddle, who would set an NR in the 5000 the following year. I don't think her 5000 time is probably representative of what she could have run in the fast race in her prime.
All that said, I'm still on the fence between her and Centro. She had the better overall career but does the Olympic Gold trump all of that? Not sure, really.
I feel like no one ever mentions Kiprop's doping ban and how that impacts Centro's career. If we retrospectively strip kiprops metals in 2011 and 2013 Centro is upgraded to silver and another gold. That's a hell of a career
That's true, but Jenny finished 2nd in 2013 to an athlete also later suspended for doping. Even though her suspension was later lifted based on a technicality, I don't think anyone thinks Aregawi was clean. Then there was Dibaba. Bottom line, the women's fields in that era were every bit as dirty as the men's, if not more so.