is D2 a better environment than D1 for track and field and cross country?

I’ve coached at D2 my entire career and ran in D2. Wouldn’t trade it for anything. Got to compete against and beat D1 schools and had the opportunity to actually compete at NCAAs? How could you go wrong? Again, just because it’s D1 doesn’t mean it’s a good team. Honestly, just saying you ran D1 and using that as your justification to going D1 is comically stupid.

like i said, not for all. a kid who wants college but is more about the experience and sports at a higher level (and perhaps partying), could veer D2 or NAIA. there are more of the inexpensive second tier state schools in D2, or cheaper religious colleges in NAIA, and they can offer athletic money. and they get middle level athletics, tougher than D3 except at nationals, but attainable if D1 goes nuts and is much harder to get in when the new rules hit.

but if you are super serious about academics, and you're hearing no under the new D1 rules, you either just do D1 but give up on varsity. or to me run D3. or you see if mines wants you.

the cost arguments are goofy and incomplete. my personal experience if you get aid the more elite the school is the better the aid is too. the alums are more successful and generous. the schools may offer 100% need met without even doing loans. or full but with loans. or zero tuition below an income threshold i would have met. crying about the sticker if you don't have to pay it or even borrow is silly.

my experience it was actually the state schools, the D2s and NAIA, who offered academic and sports money but then not much else, and had the highest drive outs. weaker academic schools, lower graduate incomes, lower endowments.

now, if you are fairly well off, yeah, they may ask you to pay sticker. but you also have parental income to pay stuff. i grew up poor, and my parents wouldn't chip in a dime besides occasional expenses or rare plane tickets or driving up to pack and unpack each end of the year. so to me it was never sticker, it was tell me what the business office is going to expect.

it's bull to tell kids the name of the school doesn't matter. it's almost as bad as saying you don't need college (unless you're in just the right trade). i get roped into some of the hiring, employees and consultants, look at resumes, talk to them after the boss, and you can believe it's where'd they go, what'd they accomplish, do they impress me somehow. that can include conveying a really strong grasp of the field but i dunno, i get some think it's unnecessary to require creds, but if i have 50, 100, 150 resumes, i'm looking for objective ways to sort the pile. you only get to show up and sell your knowledge in an interview if you survive that paper cull. we don't have the time to interview everyone, and there is some risk of opening yourself to bs artists if you depart from objective indicators, schools, grades, certifications, and wander off into the trumpian world of sales and hyperbole.

hey man ERAU is really good if you want to do something aerospace/aviation related (although unfortunately expensive especially for out of state)

not a nationally ranked team tho but maybe one day :/

Based off these rankings, anything but the top 3 or 4 are basically like a good to decent D2 school except it costs 4x more.

FYI

Colorado School of Mines which by all accounts is one of the best D2 school out there is ranked #231 $60k for out of state

Morehouse, an hbcu and another well known D2 school is ranked #367 $50k Private school

Yes

The BYU men are two years older on average because they spend two years on a mission, not because they're going to school for two years longer.

Well for every bad D1 there's 5 extra bad D2s. An average D1 would be top 15 at D2 nationals every year..sure you go to nationals but it's baby nationals.

It's like all these "national championships" in high school where anyone can go and run in the "emerging elite" or whatever. It has to mean everything or it means nothing.

Pick an “average D1” and let’s compare notes. If it means “everything or nothing” then there should be a relegation system to send all the bottom of the barrel “D1” teams down to D2 to earn that coveted title of being D1! You’d have to earn a win at “baby nationals” before being able to compete with the big boys with your everything or nothing idea!

while athletically they may deserve it, there's not a school in the geographic are in D1 that would want to be associated in a conference with Wingate academically

Dll is JV.

Truman State, Missouri S&T, Rockhurst and UMSL are D2. Wash U. is D3. All other Missouri schools are D1.

DII . . . deez nuts

The primary driver in these rankings seems to be ROI. The rankings That doesn't measure the quality of the actual school, just the costs and expected earnings after graduation.

As an employer, I generally don't care what school anyone went to, but I do look at what degrees they have and what majors they were in. I'm looking for what they have done so far in their career, and I want someone who can persuasively write. Smaller liberal arts colleges are known to be more writing intensive than big universities, but I have seen bad writers from small liberal arts colleges and good writers from big directional state schools. It really comes down to the individual making the most of their opportunity.

A few years ago, a management team I worked on had two managers from schools ranked in the middle of the forbes 500 and one ranked in the top 15. All three were the same age and had similar levels of experience and managerial experience. The former top 15 student couldn't hack it and the other two have gone on to positions of increasing responsibility.

I can appreciate these conversations. I find them to be informative and enjoyable. I do agree, that a driven person can be successful at almost any school in terms of getting the knowledge and applying it post graduation. However, I do believe the culture of a school can play a factor, especially in terms of networking, which can be just as valuable. Schools with a larger concentration of higher profile students (higher scores, grades, even more affluent) may reflect a culture where success in school and post graduation, including connections are more prevalent. Like you said, I don’t think it’s so much that the subject matter being learned in a respective major is any different. The material is the material. But the resources, including how and where that material is applied can be a significant factor in the kinds of opportunities you are exposed to. And ultimately, you may have to decide if the higher cost of that school may be worth it in the long run. For instance, Ursinus, which is ranked in the high 300s, sends a high percentage of students to graduate schools including the likes of Johns Hopkins, where an admitted student may attend med school there for free, if their family income is under 300k a year.

I'm guessing my kids will pay around 40k for 4 years at a local D2 as opposed to around 240k for going away to an instate D1. That 200k in savings should double at least 6 times before they retire, which is about 12.8M if properly invested.

Am I saying that my kids should be worth over 10M upon retirement just because they went to a local D2 instead of spending on going to a D1? Yes, since I'll probably be worth over $10M upon my own retirement for the same reason.

And, the best part of all of this? I learned all about investing at the same crappy D2 school for dumb people that they go to!

Nope, everything or nothing would mean one division for everyone. A real national championships. It would be fun to see 0 D2 schools make it.