I know, I know. New York is giving them large appearance fees. But if they ran Valencia, the American Record -- 2:05:38 -- would be theirs for the taking.
So instead of getting the AR, they'll place like fourth and fifth at New York in 2:08. Yawn.
I think 2:05 is a bit aggressive, but ya I could see them both running 2:06 on a fast course like Valencia after running 2:08 mid on the Paris course.
I agree, a 2:08 in chicago and now paris, certainly they could go 2:07 or a little better in Valencia, I just think that it is too soon to attack this. They have the fitness right now, but you can only push your body so far before the injury bug hits and you're back at square one.
As much as I'd llike to see Americans go and run Valencia, I think that they should go to London in the spring or Rotterdam and really fly on the European course.
I agree, a 2:08 in chicago and now paris, certainly they could go 2:07 or a little better in Valencia, I just think that it is too soon to attack this. They have the fitness right now, but you can only push your body so far before the injury bug hits and you're back at square one.
As much as I'd llike to see Americans go and run Valencia, I think that they should go to London in the spring or Rotterdam and really fly on the European course.
Is Valencia not a European course? What makes a course European?
What are you all smoking? They both just ran 2:08 on a course in Paris that makes NYC look like Berlin or Valencia. SMH. They could break the AR on NYC course, not impossible.
I feel like next year is the year to go for the AR if they're serious about it. Valencia would be marathon #3 of 2024 and #4 in the last 14 months. I know the last three have all gone well but I'm not sure you'd get peak performance out of guys who might need a bit of a break after the Olympics.
I think it makes sense to cash in by running NYC now (where even if they run poorly, it's not a big deal), and then if they want to take a crack at the AR, go to Chicago or Valencia next fall.
JG, please keep this same energy when Rojo inevitably goes on his impulsive post-NY rant about 'they ran like ****, they are never going to get the AR performing like this yak yak yak'
What are you all smoking? They both just ran 2:08 on a course in Paris that makes NYC look like Berlin or Valencia. SMH. They could break the AR on NYC course, not impossible.
The course record in NYC is 40 seconds faster than the American record. The guy who ran that course record just beat Mantz by 1:46 and Young by 2:18 at the Olympics. Even factoring in likely better weather at NYC, there's no way they run the American record in New York only 3 months after the Olympics.
Mantz and Young are running NYC as a nice payday and end to an incredible string of marathons, that included hitting the country auto standard for the Olympic Games at Chicago, defending those spots at the Olympic Trials and then finishing top 9 at the Olympic Games. Those three marathons together form an impressive hat trick of consistency that any U.S. marathoner would be proud of. With only 10 weeks until NYC I think they are making the right decision by being rewarded for their efforts and taking a nice payday. They can focus on fast times and their AR attempts in the spring or next fall with longer builds. I would guess that Eyestone will have them pursue separate races in the future but this last year has been the year of racing together as the qualifying race in Chicago, the Olympic Trials and the Olympic Games have necessitated a carbon copy calendar.
I agree, a 2:08 in chicago and now paris, certainly they could go 2:07 or a little better in Valencia, I just think that it is too soon to attack this. They have the fitness right now, but you can only push your body so far before the injury bug hits and you're back at square one.
As much as I'd llike to see Americans go and run Valencia, I think that they should go to London in the spring or Rotterdam and really fly on the European course.
Is Valencia not a European course? What makes a course European?
Yes, Valencia is Spain, Europe. Any of Valencia, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Berlin, Seville or London would be a fast ("European) course.
An AR in shoes like those is a gimmick. They’re not the best ever American marathoners.
Bill Rodgers is in the conversation as the best American ever, he ran 2:09 in bedroom slippers 49 years ago, C'Mon Man.
I don't think people who weren't running in the 1970's realize just how much of a difference shoes make. I'm not talking about carbon plated and fancy foam and these most recent gimmicks (which I LOVE by the way).
But, you got it right- you can go to Target and get a pair of slippers with more cushioning and support than those shoes back then had.
Some of us (me) have run through every phase of shoes from the New Balance Trackster and Nike Cortez to Super Shoes.
American record? that's cute, this thread is adorable.
Them boys is a lonnnnnnnnng way off NORTH AMERICAN record holder CAM LEVINS.
2:05:36 baaaaaaaaby.
little louder for the good old boys in the back.......CAN......NAAA....DAAAA. CANNNNN......NAAAAAA......DAAAAA!
Actually, after Nascimento got popped, we hereby claim ownership of the American record in the truest definition of the word, meaning the entire landmass.
You peasants can continue arguing about your pedestrian 2:05:38 USA record.
I feel like next year is the year to go for the AR if they're serious about it. Valencia would be marathon #3 of 2024 and #4 in the last 14 months. I know the last three have all gone well but I'm not sure you'd get peak performance out of guys who might need a bit of a break after the Olympics.
I think it makes sense to cash in by running NYC now (where even if they run poorly, it's not a big deal), and then if they want to take a crack at the AR, go to Chicago or Valencia next fall.
This is a good take. And I don’t blame them for wanting to get paid to run a high profile American marathon. I could see them running 2:08-2:09ish there. Which is great if it happens.
At the same time, I wish they weren’t doing it. The legs only have so many good marathons in them and three hard marathons in the past, basically, ten months, is a $hitload. I wish they rested and chased PRs in the spring instead. Mantz is ready to go 2:06.
You pose an interesting point. So with all the training support they receive in the background plus the inrace fuelling plus much much better clothing and periphera (ice packs etc) and pacing and prizemoney AND THE SHOES are Mantz and Young in reality that much faster (all things considered) than Bill 2:09:27 1979 and Frank 2:10:20 1973?
You pose an interesting point. So with all the training support they receive in the background plus the inrace fuelling plus much much better clothing and periphera (ice packs etc) and pacing and prizemoney AND THE SHOES are Mantz and Young in reality that much faster (all things considered) than Bill 2:09:27 1979 and Frank 2:10:20 1973?
I agree, a 2:08 in chicago and now paris, certainly they could go 2:07 or a little better in Valencia, I just think that it is too soon to attack this. They have the fitness right now, but you can only push your body so far before the injury bug hits and you're back at square one.
As much as I'd llike to see Americans go and run Valencia, I think that they should go to London in the spring or Rotterdam and really fly on the European course.
Is Valencia not a European course? What makes a course European?
totally fair, lol. I was just typing away and wasn't thinking about geography. Let me be more specific: The road surfaces are crap in Chicago. Lets face it, and crowd support is missing for significant portions of the course as well. "European" marathons that have their act together, well organized, smooth roadways, a better track, multiple pacers, better support... watch Rotterdam or Valencia and it shouldn't be a mystery that so many runners go there and run PRs. Americans typically have to stay here and get better paydays by running on home soil, but I wish that we could see more Americans mix it up on some of these courses and just see what they could run.
American record? that's cute, this thread is adorable.
Them boys is a lonnnnnnnnng way off NORTH AMERICAN record holder CAM LEVINS.
2:05:36 baaaaaaaaby.
little louder for the good old boys in the back.......CAN......NAAA....DAAAA. CANNNNN......NAAAAAA......DAAAAA!
Actually, after Nascimento got popped, we hereby claim ownership of the American record in the truest definition of the word, meaning the entire landmass.
You peasants can continue arguing about your pedestrian 2:05:38 USA record.
Remind us again how Levins placed in Paris compared to Mantz and Young?
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