"Nobody will beat them this season". - said by every confident team that thought they were going to win nxn easily only to get 2nd or 3rd. latest example being american fork
American fork was ranked with Herriman. They never said they could not be beat just that they had a chance to win but Herriman came out on top.
Yes, and there were other teams that could win last year - such as Southlake Carroll, Belen Jesuit Prep, and CBA. This was not like 2021&2022 when literally only one team could win nationals.
"Nobody will beat them this season". - said by every confident team that thought they were going to win nxn easily only to get 2nd or 3rd. latest example being american fork
Is it me or did none of us never even know who Harriman was until a couple years ago? Dude must be a magician. The haterz just sound jealous because there 5:00 guys aren’t any good.
Doug Soles gets great results out of his high school runners.
However, his high school athletes consistently do not have success after leaving his program. There are no Great Oak or Herriman studs (male or female to be clear) that have had outstanding college "careers" or gone on to any meaningful professional racing results.
Does that matter? Is peaking in high school that bad? I would not want my kid in his program, but maybe other people would feel differently.
My perception is that he prioritizes his success (coaching achievements) over the long-term interest of his athletes. And I find that objectionable.
This race was actually surprisingly slow for them. First 2 miles are over 200 feet net loss and the last mile is net even. With past results if this race I would have expected the top few to dip under 15. Could be a big training week for them or maybe they are getting too excited this summer and racing workouts…
Herriman ran at the Deseret news 5k this morning in Utah. Air quality was 67, so could be better. The course is on the roads with a bit of uphill and downhill. Quite fast, but also at 4200 feet.
Doug Soles gets great results out of his high school runners.
However, his high school athletes consistently do not have success after leaving his program. There are no Great Oak or Herriman studs (male or female to be clear) that have had outstanding college "careers" or gone on to any meaningful professional racing results.
Looked up a couple of the runners who were interviewed and was a little surprised they weren't faster on the track. Was also surprised that they didn't have much of a college career. I am asking as a coach, not as a critic... do you think his training intensity (he said they train 12x a week) is too much?
There is an inherent problem with hitting high mileage in high school. If you're a 40 mpw kind of guy, you should improve when you bump up to 50. My old school was still able to routinely podium/top 5 at NXR while doing something like 15/25/35/45 mpw as a fresh/soph/jr/senior.
The problem was, to be a REALLY good high school team, these days you need 60-70 mpw plus lots of extra stuff. That's the Newbury Park effect. The trade off, is that a kid that ran 9:00 off of 45 mile weeks can improve much more in college as they build to 100 mpw (60 mpw increase) over a kid who ran 8:45 with 70 mpw (30 mpw increase).
Unless you have genetic phenoms like the Youngs and Sahlmans, (and that's not even the full story because Mike Smith is a wizard and they have altitude) you need to either increase mileage or add in more elements like altitude to get better. With runners who do the volume that Great Oak does, its MUCH MUCH harder to improve in college than with the typical kid who's coach didn't know anything.
It's a world of trade offs, and the Herriman/Great Oak guys are trading collegiate improvement for high school improvement. There's a case to be made that some of these guys would never get scholarships in any other program without the Doug Soles training, but I'll leave that for you to decide...
Great Oak and Herriman’s guys don’t/ didn’t run high mileage. 45-70 depending on individualization. Jeez, just look at strava! Same as American Fork. Newbury Park as well. Soles tells of stories where some guys experimented with high mileage on their own at Great Oak during the early days.
***The difference is team culture (call it a cult if you’re a hater), coaches ability to sell, and specific workouts/timing done week after week**
Trust me, not all guys who won NXN at Great Oak had a deep passion for running, that’s why they said “see ya!” after securing fat scholarships and experiencing parties. They’re set up for successful lives now.
American fork was ranked with Herriman. They never said they could not be beat just that they had a chance to win but Herriman came out on top.
Yes, and there were other teams that could win last year - such as Southlake Carroll, Belen Jesuit Prep, and CBA. This was not like 2021&2022 when literally only one team could win nationals.
Yes. Sorry I ignored those other teams. The poster was saying AF talked like they were 100% winning it which they never did so I said that and ignored other favorites.
Doug Soles gets great results out of his high school runners.
However, his high school athletes consistently do not have success after leaving his program. There are no Great Oak or Herriman studs (male or female to be clear) that have had outstanding college "careers" or gone on to any meaningful professional racing results.
Does that matter? Is peaking in high school that bad? I would not want my kid in his program, but maybe other people would feel differently.
My perception is that he prioritizes his success (coaching achievements) over the long-term interest of his athletes. And I find that objectionable.
Woah. It is almost like you need exceptional talent for that. Soles has had plenty of guys go on to break 4. I cant recall any names but I remember a guy named carson something.
Doug Soles gets great results out of his high school runners.
However, his high school athletes consistently do not have success after leaving his program. There are no Great Oak or Herriman studs (male or female to be clear) that have had outstanding college "careers" or gone on to any meaningful professional racing results.
Herriman ran at the Deseret news 5k this morning in Utah. Air quality was 67, so could be better. The course is on the roads with a bit of uphill and downhill. Quite fast, but also at 4200 feet.
That’s cool and all, but in other news, Kaden Evans just popped a 30:25 10k in Spanish Fork. I am predicting he will be the NXR SW champ and in contention for NXN champ.
Herriman ran at the Deseret news 5k this morning in Utah. Air quality was 67, so could be better. The course is on the roads with a bit of uphill and downhill. Quite fast, but also at 4200 feet.
That’s cool and all, but in other news, Kaden Evans just popped a 30:25 10k in Spanish Fork. I am predicting he will be the NXR SW champ and in contention for NXN champ.
And another AF senior Moore ran a 30:51 10k. Rest of the speedy Spaniard results are below.
Doug Soles is a drill sergeant and doesnt really know how to train at a high level. All he does is have his high school athletes run a sh!t load of miles. His athletes literally disappear in college
I'm not a hater... but I am VERY jealous of the numbers he gets out. 200 kids? That's insane.
I heard in an interview, that when he had 200 kids once at great oak, he was considering making cuts.
The number is lower now, because he is relatively new to Herriman and there are no 9th graders in that building which makes it harder to get kids out. The girls team is a lot smaller
This race was actually surprisingly slow for them. First 2 miles are over 200 feet net loss and the last mile is net even. With past results if this race I would have expected the top few to dip under 15. Could be a big training week for them or maybe they are getting too excited this summer and racing workouts…
Only on letsrun can you find someone pretending having 6 guys under 15:30 at 4500 feet in July isn’t crazy. If this was a race in November and they were at sea level then sure, they’d probably get a few guys sub 15. But this was a holiday 5k (July 24th is an Utah holiday) before the season has started. They didn’t even have competition. Nobody is peaking for this, they probably didn’t even cut mileage the day before. Can’t believe people are treating this like Woodbridge results
This race was actually surprisingly slow for them. First 2 miles are over 200 feet net loss and the last mile is net even. With past results if this race I would have expected the top few to dip under 15. Could be a big training week for them or maybe they are getting too excited this summer and racing workouts…
Can’t believe people are treating this like Woodbridge results
That's how people are, they tear down anything that makes them feel uncomfortable. Woodbridge is just Arcadia on a cross country course.
