Are USA adults not capable of rational discussing on Covid vaccine (that it was rushed, helped elderly, does have side effects)

Americans are shallow and intellectually lazy. They read headlines but can't be bothered to delve into the article. They accept YouTube videos as proof without questioning the source or the accuracy of information. If some suit-and-tie pundit says it on TV, then it must be a fact. If a government official touts it, then it must be legit. When a pastor says it, then you best bank on it. If a random anonymous poster on a message board claims something to be true, then it really must be incontrovertible.

Americans like being spoon fed because thinking critically takes effort. They want instant gratification and bias confirmation delivered without having to lift a finger or firing a synapse.

Rational discussion becomes difficult when the medical, corporate and political establishment attempts to instill panic, fear, anxiety and apprehension among the general population. I am thankful that one-third of humanity refuses to be bamboozled by the Orwellian control apparatus and remains to this day zero-dose unvaccinated.

It's probably not productive to call people "stupid" if you're trying to convince them to change their believes, but if we're doing "rational", here's some ratios:

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Image:monkeystyping.neocities.org/covid/adul...

Today it comes down to how the two camps were treated early. Those who were skeptical of the safety of the vaccine were seen as anti-vax. Now that there are significant indications that the vaccine has harmful side effects, the skeptics are being very vocal about how they were right to think that way early on. Meanwhile the extreme pro-vax crowd is trying to hang on what little is left of their credibility. They stand fast in light of the ever growing evidence of the harm the vaccine has caused.

We are talking about injecting a new vaccine into your body for a virus that no one knew anything about yet. The vaccine hesitant were the smart ones. As someone who was somewhat hesitant - simply due to a lack of long-term studies - but ultimately decided to take the vaccines, I was always a little weirded out by the people who seemed so eager to inject themselves and others. Almost militant, in fact. Fear is a real bi#@h.

As someone else mentioned, it wasn't as much about the vaccine as it was about the reactions that people had. It was the first time that some of us saw widespread irrationality from our fellow Americans, and that was frightening. The government response was scary; the response of many of our fellow citizens was scary. This has carried over into other aspects of life and politics, and our ability to trust has been degraded significantly. It is sad and I am not sure we can put the genie back in the bottle.

Thanks for providing this data.

I think one of the issues with “data” provided by those on either side, is neither trusts the other’s source. So those who have concerns/doubts about the trustworthiness of govt+cdc feel the data they provide is biased/tweaked to support their aim, and vice-versa (ie: data/stories about corruption/vaccine injury). We are probably too far-gone to recover from this in multiple areas (vaccine, politics).

So it would seem the ultimate solution would be friendly disagreement.

I agree with everything you wrote. Living in Queens, in pretty much ground zero I saw the lines of people outside my neighborhood hospital and heard ambulances all day and night those 1st 6 weeks. . Whether this was real or not it was frightening. And the irrationality and response from both sides was evident.Certainly I might have thought differently had I lived in another area of the country.

I ultimately chose the vaccine given my age and exercise induced asthma (my Dr who's a marathon runner was hospitalized for 3 weeks) but I am still pissed that my kids had to be vaccinated to attend school and participate in sports.

Have a read of Steve the Addict's post and try to understand that this is the average position for an online 'vaccine hesitant' person.

Might give some insight into why people might just dismiss you as 'stupid', and not be interested in actual debate.

No but I do wear a seatbelt when I drive/ride in a car. so?????

For a flu shot that didn't stop transmission. Who is stupid?

You know what would be good for society, if 40% of the population wasn't obese. Those people are being selfish...

I would almost buy your reasoning, except for the fact that Americans have no problem putting things in their body that have never been studied. Supplements, diet pills, home remedies, ,Eat tons of processed chemical laden food, etc.

There are also plenty of Americans who do colossally stupid stuff all the time. Potentially fatal stuff.

Yet they draw the line at a well researched vaccine? Suddenly they need peer reviewed data?

Personally, I think it comes back to the social media fueled Death of Expertise.

I totally agree. the flu shot is a yearly guess as to which strain will be dominant. So I don’t have any issue with people that are hesitant towards take it.

You're the moron with your 27-minute 5k who stated in your handle (before you were rightfully called out on it and changed it) that your refusal to get the vaccine was why you were so "fast." That ridiculous statement -- that (a) you were fast, and (b) that your vaccine status had anything to do with it -- was a great reflection of the delusional world you live in...which ties in perfectly to the anti-vax, tinfoil hat, conspiracy theory, brain-addled world you live in and posts you spam the board with. Do better. Better yet, go away.

There aren't two legitimate "sides," just as there weren't two legitimate sides on Jan 6, 2021 nor in Charlottesville (the white supremacist killing the counterprotestor). There is the side of reason versus the side of tinfoil-hat-weaing, easily-manipulated-by-authoritarians, drooling morons.

But the difference is the government REQUIRING us to do something that we're not sure is safe (or worth the risk). I am not sure why some fat ass choosing to smoke cigarettes and drink Monster Energy drinks means that those of us who do care about our bodies should be forced to inject something. I would feel the same way if the government suddenly required me to drink three Red Bulls a day and smoke a cigarette to go into the office because it made me more productive and was for the greater good of the economy, which would end homelessness and reduce poverty.

I don't take supplements or diet pills or do "colossally stupid stuff all the time" except maybe run long distances :)

Ultimately, like coach, I did decide to take the vaccines. But again, it was more about the irrationality, some of which I feel like you're showing in your post. I saw that with all respect because I believe that we are both just looking at this from different views but eventually could reach the same conclusion.

I don’t know , I think the very definitive irrationality is not doing something just because you were told to do it or that it was good for you. That’s like toddler behavior.

by the way, I work for the federal government and there was always, let me repeat that always, a way for you to avoid taking the vaccine if you got tested and masked up.

Yes, see I think we're getting closer to an agreement and I see your point entirely. I guess my point was that it was always more about the militant stance of "fellow Americans" and how this experience unleashed something we'd ever seen before. I don't think most Americans under the age of 50 have ever lived through something where our neighbors would turn on us for our positions. This was the first time we'd experienced something like that. So regardless of the vaccine efficacy or how the mandates played out, it was a scary time and that impacted all of us in some way. I think the only difference is what stoked your fear: the virus or the government mandates.

And while I agree with your opening point, I also understand the principle of standing up for what you believe. Sometime you need to stand up for a principle even if the result of betraying that principle is in your favor.

Anyway, thank you for the respectful discussion.

I agree with all you said except that the 'young and healthy' "covid" deaths were really malpractice deaths by ventilator or redemsivir.

"Well-researched vaccine...." 😂