Rodgers Kwemoi - former training partner of Kipchoge - banned 6 years for blood doping

Also, stop making stuff up. I have been on Letsrun for more than 20 years and not once have I threatened anyone. Don't cross such lines. It's not nice to accuse people like that.

There are programs in place to educate Kenyan runners on the risks of doping (for their health and for their careers). But that's not how you are going to deter everyone from doping.
The risk/reward ratio is still too unbalanced when so many of them live in poverty.
Not for one moment am I defending dopers. But I understand why some of them do. Then there are the big egos as well. Guys who are successful and just can't stand losing, or getting old, etc.

This particular case is very strange. The timeline, the number of samples involved. In any case. If he doped, then good thing he got caught.

So we're on the same page then.

Kenyans dope with impunity because the rewards are potentially high and the risk is relatively low.

Maybe fewer would take the risk if the Canova/Hermens type figure that controls them faced some sanctions if one of their stable gets caught.

On the basics yes. Doping bad. Doper caught? Good.

They don't "dope with impunity". They take greater risks. And it's much easier to get away with doping in the US or a northern European country, with easy access to labs, technology, etc. Wasn't the AIU saying that doping in Kenya is unsophisticated?

Actually I think it would be a good thing if coaches with multiple athletes caught get some sort of penalty as well. Coaches and agents

It's difficult to prove their involvement if they coach 100 runners and 1 gets caught. But when that happens over and over again, especially in small groups, then definitely, sanctions should exist.

This is not an opinion, Dolty.

Not just poor Africans.

The system is unfair to everyone because nobody has ever cheated in the sport and those who have doped 'by accident' didn't improve at all anyway.

We get it. We don't need another 1000 posts on this thread explaining what I just managed to say in about 20 words.

I'm Hoady. My wife is also Hoady.

Hahaha yes. Most people are upset that yet another Kenyan cheated, and glad that he got caught and banned, but rekrunner finds point 49 and is upset that the prosecution might have had an advantage over the poor doper.

But no, you must never call him a pro-doper or a drug cheat apologist.

Not only is doping throughout Kenyan running, it is at every level.

I wouldn't have said any of that in any words, but if you say so ...

I can't stop people from calling me names, but it would not be accurate or honest.

I did say it probably wouldn't have helped Kwemoi, but the comments I made about paragraphs 49 and 54 were general comments for all accused athletes, both dopers and non-dopers, given the burden on the accused to rebut the presumption that the science was done correctly according to lab guidelines.

I think in this case you are reaching. The AIUs decision seems very fair. There are not a few irregularities in his passport - there are many. They are not minor/moderate signs of usage (a la Jeruto), they are pretty large ones. There also seems to be a systematic pattern of doping in Kenya that correlates with lifetime-best performances (27:05A, 58:30 et al). They do a good job of pointing this out. The case was really built out over 3 not 6 years. They didn’t catch him red-handed which is less satisfying, but they caught his values pinballing so much that it’s hard to imagine this is a clean athlete.

You might wonder how Kipchoge is able to easily beat all of his training partners who have been caught doping. The answer is easy, don't dope and train hard and you'll be able to beat world class athletes cheating. Simple logic, no human is limited.

Don't misunderstand me. I think the case and reasoning against Kwemoi looks pretty strong -- I don't see anything obviously wrong with their experts' explanations. I'm not an expert, but several of the blood values look like they fluctuate too much for too long to be caused by sea-level to altitude to sea-level transitions.

I'm just wondering why it took 7 years, or even 3 years. Some of the bad samples are from 2019, 2021, and the worst is April 2022, yet he was only charged Aug. 2023, 16 months later. It seems like a bad look if they have to go back all the way to 2016 -- nearly 8 years later -- and rewrite the results.

The other comments were more general, and unlikely to help Kwemoi. As we learned previously, the athlete has the burden to rebut the presumption that the AIU's results are properly reported within the guidelines. To meet that burden and prepare a defense, the athlete should have access to all the data that is being used to convict him, as well as access to competent experts able to independently analyze and interpret the data.

“it probably wouldn't have helped Kwemoi”

”no human is limited”

Absolute bs.

You are failing to recognize that he was still listed as 23 years old even in early 2022 for the 58:30. His lifetime best in the 5000m, altitude or not, was SIX YEARS earlier. In the years following the 13:18, he ran 13:32, 13:25, 13:22, 14:20, all at sea level, before the 13:21 at altitude. Let's think about when he started doping. Likely not until after the years of not improving. He rises to the level where he can run in Japan. He regresses for years. Then he runs 26:55 in 2019. He peaked in 2016 and then started regressing in both 5k and 10k. In 2015, he ran 27:45, then 27:25 at his natural peak in 2016, then in the next two years, 27:38 and 27:28 (all sea level races). In 2019, he starts blood doping and that works particularly well the longer he runs, the more aerobic the race, so he runs 26:55 at World's in 2019 and eventually 58:30 in the half, his second year trying it. People turn to doping typically when they think they're capped out and can't get better without it.

All that means that he was an age cheater. What male peaks at 18 in distance running at that level?

The athletes are defended by knowledgeable counsel, so this is not about English ability.