What is the threshold that separates a "hobbyjogger" from a "sub-elite" runner?

This topic has already been addressed. Here are the two definitions to keep in mind"

Hobbyjogger - Anyone who runs slower than me.

PED Cheater - Anyone who runs faster than me.

There isn't one. You're either elite (getting paid, it's your job) or you're a hobby jogger. There's no in between.

That is neighborhood elite at best which is still hobby jogging. 2:20 marathon for men. 2:45 for women.

Equation is as follows

Sub-Elite > Me > Hobby Jogger

Sub elite to me means not good enough to be a full time professional athlete.

4.00

13.30

1: 02

2:12

In your next race, take a look around.

Everybody ahead of you is an elite runner.

Everybody behind you is a hobbyjogger.

self-delusion

Yes

Running influencers are generally not elites. However, even the slowest paid influencer is not a hobby jogger: they are quite literally monetizing their running.

A hobby jogger is anyone who runs for enjoyment, without a paycheck. Speed and pace are irrelevant.

A sub elite enters the local turkey trot to win, a hobby jogger enters for the post race raffle and meal

Disagree with a couple points I’ve seen:

- Two people I think said 2:10, that’s crazy. So CJ Albertson was a hobby jogger until 3 weeks ago? I don’t think so. Dude got 5th at the trials prior to breaking 2:10 for the first time.

- Lots of upvotes on posts saying times are irrelevant, all that separates elites from hobbyjoggers is getting paid. Utter nonsense. Times are ALL that matter in this debate. If you’re running in the trials, or running killer times as a side hobby, and not sponsored or making any money, you still get to be considered “elite” or “sub-elite” or whatever. Likewise, just because you might be making money as a runner doesn’t mean you’re even sub elite if you’re not getting it done. Your times and results do the talking, not $.

Elite = East Africa

Sub-Elite = USA

keepin it on the crete

A sub elite runner would be around 26 minutes for the 8k, or a 3:07 marathon, both equal in effort and probably faster than sub-elite

This helps - I now know I am a sub elite wannabe hobbyjoger - cool!

If you’re a American who works full time and runs 2:11:53 or faster you could get a Keira damato type sponsorship to show a working man running near world class times

Almost 20 years ago I ran around 1:13 for a half and got paid for finishing in second place. Elite?

CJ ALbertson got paid to run even when he was slower than 2:10, so of course he was not an hobbyjogger (the 2:10 in that post was just a random threshold to mimic the one of the OP, as far as I understand it, so yeah maybe if for some reason somebody gives you enough money to live off a 2:20 marathon, you are still an elite athlete of sorts, since you are in the small minority that lives off his running abilities). The random dude that runs 2:14 to qualify for Olympic Trials while training before and after his 9-5 job, is instead still an hobbyjogger (and even if he wins a couple thousands dollars in the local random slow races, that doesn't matter, unless he can live off that couple thousands dollars per year: running is still his hobby, even if he is extremely good at it and he is nearly obsessed by it, at the point of devoting to it almost all the time free from his actual damn job).

I'm assuming those are male times, but maybe take an extra 10-15% off them.

"Sub-elite" is someone who is just on the cusp of being "elite", which is defined as:

a) being able to earn enough money through running so that you don't have to work another job.

b) making international teams

c) getting a start in diamond leagues or world tour meets.

For a male, that's a sub:

3:55 mile, which would make a 4:05 mile sub-elite.

A sub 13:20 for 5k (14:00 = sub-elite).

A sub 1:03 HM (1:06 = sub-elite).

A sub 2:12 Marathon (2:20 = sub-elite).