Eight hundred meter performance is an acquired skill. I don't know what you are arguing. Of course 800m performances are strongly correlated to 200m ability.
John Carlos, who was around J Ryun more than you were has stated J Ryun to have been a 44.xx 400m talent. I wouldn't go that far. I would put Ryun in the 46.50 to 46.99 range, assuming if he sprinted fresh based on his 1 mile training. If Ryun were adopted by then East Germans or then Soviets and told from age twelve to train as an 800m man, a bit faster than my above estimated range for Ryun.
I cannot find a f.a.t. 400m for Ralph Doubell either. Based on his 600 yard dash performances, I estimate R Doubell's 400m ability, about 45.50. R Doubell was a contemporary of Ryun. Over the years, there have been discussions: What if Jim Ryun raced 800m, 1968 Olympic?
Eight hundred meter performance is an acquired skill. I don't know what you are arguing. Of course 800m performances are strongly correlated to 200m ability.
John Carlos, who was around J Ryun more than you were has stated J Ryun to have been a 44.xx 400m talent. I wouldn't go that far. I would put Ryun in the 46.50 to 46.99 range, assuming if he sprinted fresh based on his 1 mile training. If Ryun were adopted by then East Germans or then Soviets and told from age twelve to train as an 800m man, a bit faster than my above estimated range for Ryun.
I cannot find a f.a.t. 400m for Ralph Doubell either. Based on his 600 yard dash performances, I estimate R Doubell's 400m ability, about 45.50. R Doubell was a contemporary of Ryun. Over the years, there have been discussions: What if Jim Ryun raced 800m, 1968 Olympic?
You're looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses - something I am accused of. (Juan Carlos, by the way, was known for his tendency to exaggerate. 44x was Tommie Smith's range - a 19.8 runner over the 200).
Neither of those estimates of Ryun or Doubell are credible. In those eras that kind of capacity would have made them competitive over one lap. Runners (and their coaches) don't ignore their strengths. Neither athlete was a sprinter.
Doubell's 600y time in no way suggests 45x ability. More likely 47 but he was better over the longer distance because of his strength. Ryun is believed to be a 22sec runner over 200 and with his best 800 time that suggests around 48 or just under for one lap.
Both those runners had great kicks but that doesn't mean high top-end speed, but strength combined with endurance.
A lot of posts attribute performances to runners they never recorded - and one of the obvious reasons they didn't is that they were nowhere near as good over those distances as their specialty events.
I don't even understand their approach, they run these things that they could clearly duplicate in practice and run in these short field TT's a bit. Then they pace in multiple events? Why? It works obviously for Hocker..one of Teare's shortcomings given his really good 3:32.19 is navigating traffic and tactics..you don't get that from running races where two guys finish..or these second tier multi events, not even running the full distance. Just an opinion..I don't get it, they could do the same thing not going to these off the grid average meets.
Eight hundred meter performance is an acquired skill. I don't know what you are arguing. Of course 800m performances are strongly correlated to 200m ability.
John Carlos, who was around J Ryun more than you were has stated J Ryun to have been a 44.xx 400m talent. I wouldn't go that far. I would put Ryun in the 46.50 to 46.99 range, assuming if he sprinted fresh based on his 1 mile training. If Ryun were adopted by then East Germans or then Soviets and told from age twelve to train as an 800m man, a bit faster than my above estimated range for Ryun.
I cannot find a f.a.t. 400m for Ralph Doubell either. Based on his 600 yard dash performances, I estimate R Doubell's 400m ability, about 45.50. R Doubell was a contemporary of Ryun. Over the years, there have been discussions: What if Jim Ryun raced 800m, 1968 Olympic?
You're looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses - something I am accused of. (Juan Carlos, by the way, was known for his tendency to exaggerate. 44x was Tommie Smith's range - a 19.8 runner over the 200).
Neither of those estimates of Ryun or Doubell are credible. In those eras that kind of capacity would have made them competitive over one lap. Runners (and their coaches) don't ignore their strengths. Neither athlete was a sprinter.
Doubell's 600y time in no way suggests 45x ability. More likely 47 but he was better over the longer distance because of his strength. Ryun is believed to be a 22sec runner over 200 and with his best 800 time that suggests around 48 or just under for one lap.
Both those runners had great kicks but that doesn't mean high top-end speed, but strength combined with endurance.
A lot of posts attribute performances to runners they never recorded - and one of the obvious reasons they didn't is that they were nowhere near as good over those distances as their specialty events.
Haha maybe this is where the "1:39" idea came from, as that would be the result of having 44s speed and 3:33 endurance.
You're looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses - something I am accused of. (Juan Carlos, by the way, was known for his tendency to exaggerate. 44x was Tommie Smith's range - a 19.8 runner over the 200).
Neither of those estimates of Ryun or Doubell are credible. In those eras that kind of capacity would have made them competitive over one lap. Runners (and their coaches) don't ignore their strengths. Neither athlete was a sprinter.
Doubell's 600y time in no way suggests 45x ability. More likely 47 but he was better over the longer distance because of his strength. Ryun is believed to be a 22sec runner over 200 and with his best 800 time that suggests around 48 or just under for one lap.
Both those runners had great kicks but that doesn't mean high top-end speed, but strength combined with endurance.
A lot of posts attribute performances to runners they never recorded - and one of the obvious reasons they didn't is that they were nowhere near as good over those distances as their specialty events.
Haha maybe this is where the "1:39" idea came from, as that would be the result of having 44s speed and 3:33 endurance.
Any guy that focuses on 400m instead of 1500 will be faster at 400m, and when they run seldomly, the times are under estimated. For a one off, a faster 1500m athlete will be pressed to run 49 or under 50 secs 400m in the midst of a training cycle, and 48 seconds is a great result when peaking. The PR of these guys say running just a season as a 400m runner, the opener will be 1 1/2 seconds off peak, and the above are the considerations when people speculate about the 400m time.
Guys like Cram say they are hard pressed to run a 48, this would be true, but that doesn't tell the real tale and hides the truth, where that 48 speed means 142 800m,
not bad after pacing the 1500, 800, and 5k in a span of 2 hours. The range is impressive.
Friendly reminder, when posting about a meet or an article, can you please assume others don't have any idea what you are talking about it and describe it a little bit and link to the source. What meet are we talking about? What were his splits for all of the races?
"In light of the previous night’s downpours and the ominous clouds that hung in the sky over Lawrence on the morning of April 23, 1966, the organizers of the Kansas Relays expected no more than 5,000 spectators to show up for the day’s track event... They saw the long jumpers use a grain elevator’s conveyor belt for a runway... On April 23 of that year, with his 19th birthday less than a week away and storm clouds gathered overhead, Ryun took to the rain-soaked track at Memorial Stadium and shattered the 12-year old Kansas Relays mile record by more than seven seconds. The KU prodigy admitted that the wild cheering of the unexpectedly large crowd “spurred him on” to the fifth fastest mile in American history. His time of 3:55.8 represented the best time anyone in the world had yet recorded that year... Later that day he anchored the freshman mile relay team for KU and despite receiving the baton 20 yards behind the leaders reeled them in with a 46.9-second quarter-mile to give his team the victory."
They didn’t finish the 800 or 5000, did they even run in the 15?
I down-voted you because you used the word "they" to describe a single person whose gender we know. Unless he is a non-binary athlete, please stop the insanity.
Were you talking about Cole Hocker? Or Hocker and some other people?
Grammar lesson: Cole is a fast runner. He runs really fast! Cole and Cooper run well together. They run fast!
Eight hundred meter performance is an acquired skill. I don't know what you are arguing. Of course 800m performances are strongly correlated to 200m ability.
John Carlos, who was around J Ryun more than you were has stated J Ryun to have been a 44.xx 400m talent. I wouldn't go that far. I would put Ryun in the 46.50 to 46.99 range, assuming if he sprinted fresh based on his 1 mile training. If Ryun were adopted by then East Germans or then Soviets and told from age twelve to train as an 800m man, a bit faster than my above estimated range for Ryun.
I cannot find a f.a.t. 400m for Ralph Doubell either. Based on his 600 yard dash performances, I estimate R Doubell's 400m ability, about 45.50. R Doubell was a contemporary of Ryun. Over the years, there have been discussions: What if Jim Ryun raced 800m, 1968 Olympic?
Doubell started as a 440 yards runner. He did run a 74.4 for 660 yards..
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