Geerts was not a professional coach. He has never coached before he started coaching his sons.
So let’s rephrase this:
Jakob is coached by his father, a self taught coach, who never coached before. With a brother that appeared on the likely doping list. In a country that never tested anyone under 18.
Not saying he’s doping. Just painting a realistic picture of why it seems like it.
This “In a country that never tested anyone under 18.”: It’s simply not correct. -Almost none were tested in 2019, 2020 and 2021 (and parts of 2022) because of new rules from the authorities (department of culture) when it comes to athletes between 15 and 18 years old. But before 2019 and after fall 2022 the testing rate was normal…
Conclusion: Jakob has been tested all the way.
Yes, Gjert was an uneducated coach. But he leant heavily on Marius Bakken, who developed the ground breaking “Norwegian method”.
Yes, older brother Henrik was on Wada’s list “Likely doping”, based on his blood pass. But one of Norway’s most well renowned altitude / doping researchers, professor Jostein Hallen said there’s a reason why suspicions like this is without merit: Blood passes are so flawed (altitude training not implemented, measured or understood correctly) that they are useless. And we know Henrik did a lot of altitude training…
I neither am saying anything about doping or not. But there’s many ways to paint a picture…
Link to article about doping testing -underage- in Norway:
Norges idrettsforbund og Antidoping Norge nedsatte før helgen en arbeidsgruppe som skulle finne frem til en løsning for innhenting av samtykker for dopingkontroller av mindreårige toppidrettsutøvere under 18 år. Nå er løsning...
So there you have it, the term 'EPO era' is a misnomer because they never stopped using. It's laughable that people claimed for so long that today's athletes are cleaner than those of the past.
Also love the subtle implied shot at Katir he includes
Yeah interesting one. I actually agree with him on the doping part - I do think it's worse. People know how to use EPO, testosterone, nandrolone to the limits (just don't get careless with precursor supplements where you don't know how much of of the good stuff you'll actually end up producing a-la Shelburrito) - and there is also a lot of stuff always cycling through that takes a while for the authorities to catch on to (and then it's onto the next).
However I don't know I'd be pointing it out this way. Because then it doesn't start to become a "Lance v the Peloton" situation where you start to wonder how exactly it is a clean guy can beat a field of cheats and similar to the tour it's not like these guys are 4.00 milers taking drugs - they are also really good already. Not saying J.I is cheating - just saying he probably should be aware of the obvious optic.
No, we're supposed to believe that training as a professional runner, in a family of professional runners, with a professional coach as his father, since age 13, PLUS his immense talent is what made him the best in the world. Not saying its any more believable, just painting a more realistic picture of why one might argue Jakob is clean.
Norwegian athletes athlete Henrik Ingebrigtsen (26) has been on a list of 46 athletes who the International Athletics Association suspected of using doping. It shows alleged IAAF documents released…
With this amount of confidence, surely he has to be clean. I mean come on lol, it would be devastating for him if tomorrow he was caught doping after saying this right?
With this amount of confidence, surely he has to be clean. I mean come on lol, it would be devastating for him if tomorrow he was caught doping after saying this right?
No, we're supposed to believe that training as a professional runner, in a family of professional runners, with a professional coach as his father, since age 13, PLUS his immense talent is what made him the best in the world. Not saying its any more believable, just painting a more realistic picture of why one might argue Jakob is clean.
Doesn’t this make him more likely to not have doped? if we was on a suspected doper list, wouldn’t they be investigating him or looking more closely at him than others for a long period of time?
I think it unlikely that three brothers from the same family were all world class runners. I know the argument about genetics and there have been examples of twins in track being at a high level but I can't think of any other examples of three siblings all coached by the same person being that good.
I might be wrong on that but what is more suspicious and brings the whole lot of them into question is Nordas. He already trained with them yet suddenly became world class when Gert gave him his full 'attention'. His training cant have been so very different before! How does someone at his age suddenly turn into a 3:29 guy in such a short space of time. It stinks!
For what it's worth I think most of the top guys are doing grey area stuff like thyroid, asthma meds etc. Some are probably doing micro dosing of testosterone and EPO. Less still full blown doping. I don't think it's worse than 10 years ago. They are catching more Kenyans because they have much improved testing in Kenya. They have always been cheating. At some point the Ethiopians will start getting caught as well. They have an authoritarian regime and ideal situation for a systematic doping program for top athletes. More organised than it is in Kenya.
So we're supposed to believe he's so talented he dominates a field of dopers?
Most confirmed dopers aren’t even elite. In Norway f.ex, doping authorities have revealed a huge steroid problem among youngsters who don’t even compete. Of course Jakob is better than these, but also better than elite athletes that dope, but never have been anywhere near his training history or performance level -doping can of course (if you know what you are doing) make you better, but of course not into a world beater by itself… So of course he can beat a field of dopers..! The question is if he can beat athletes who are near his performance level (clean) and then start to dope. But we don’t know for sure if there are any…
They are all doping. All of them. There has been a plethora of world records, collegiate records broken in recent times. Running is a sport where you have to cheat to win.
I call bull. If he were correct, then lots of people would be on that list, 1000s actually, not just 50ish.
I don’t understand your question. I haven’t said that Bakken has said anything at all…
I bet they meant Hallen with your bold remark: "Blood passes are so flawed (altitude training not implemented, measured or understood correctly) that they are useless."
This came up during the Henrik and Evan likely doping threads: if altitude training would lead to the likely doping status, then 1/3 - 1/5 of all distance athletes, including almost all Kenyans and Ethiopians, would get that status regularly. Definitely over 1000 athletes. That is obviously not true, considering less than 20 likely dopers were on that IAAF list. Plus, even the IAAF cannot be that stupid! After all, they started with that around 2002, and fully implemented the ABP in 2009, and that list was from 2015/2016.
Yes I find it slightly curious that Jakob is saying that doping is worst today than 10 years ago.
Why did he say that??? Does he mean WADA is a sitting duck???? Sounds very disrespectful towards WADA's work.
I love the man Witold Banka, he has very good looks for one and attracts my attention on first impression you know????? For another, he seems very industrious and has a very good team around him. They are actually serious about antidoping!!!
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
So we're supposed to believe he's so talented he dominates a field of dopers?
Most confirmed dopers aren’t even elite. In Norway f.ex, doping authorities have revealed a huge steroid problem among youngsters who don’t even compete. Of course Jakob is better than these, but also better than elite athletes that dope, but never have been anywhere near his training history or performance level -doping can of course (if you know what you are doing) make you better, but of course not into a world beater by itself… So of course he can beat a field of dopers..! The question is if he can beat athletes who are near his performance level (clean) and then start to dope. But we don’t know for sure if there are any…
I like your comment actually. It makes great sense. Dopers don't necessarily are at the level of Jakob in the first place so it puts in question the point of doping. First you need to be damn good like Jakob and then dope to beat him!!!! Otherwise, you need to better than Jakob by nature of being unradiated by anthropogenic RFs and beat Jakob that way as well. Such as Daniel Komen, Haile Geb, Kenenisa Bekele and EL G who were all better than Jakob off the bat right at the start!!!!
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
So there you have it, the term 'EPO era' is a misnomer because they never stopped using. It's laughable that people claimed for so long that today's athletes are cleaner than those of the past.
Also love the subtle implied shot at Katir he includes
Yeah interesting one. I actually agree with him on the doping part - I do think it's worse. People know how to use EPO, testosterone, nandrolone to the limits (just don't get careless with precursor supplements where you don't know how much of of the good stuff you'll actually end up producing a-la Shelburrito) - and there is also a lot of stuff always cycling through that takes a while for the authorities to catch on to (and then it's onto the next).
However I don't know I'd be pointing it out this way. Because then it doesn't start to become a "Lance v the Peloton" situation where you start to wonder how exactly it is a clean guy can beat a field of cheats and similar to the tour it's not like these guys are 4.00 milers taking drugs - they are also really good already. Not saying J.I is cheating - just saying he probably should be aware of the obvious optic.
"Optics"? So you're saying - a logical person might conclude that if Jakob is correct and you are correct [since you agree with him] that doping is as bad as it's ever been, and so many of the super Elite talents [ especially the E. Africans] are heavily doping then how on Earth could a teenage sea level athlete come along and kick all their asses routinely?
Yes that would be a very logical question to ask. The only answers to that question are-
1] Jakob and you are wrong about how common heavy doping is in distance running. Or...
2] doping is not nearly as much of an advantage as most think when applied to Elite athletes. So.... maybe we've exaggerated it's importance. Or...
2a] it can be a big Advantage but the ultimates talented athletes can still beat talented dopers
3] Jakob is also a doper
Now of course "2a" is the least likely answer but the one that Jakob and his fans would like us all to believe. But if it is a true possibility then we can not only apply it to Jakob and we must also recognize that it means many other all-time greats like like Bekele, Gebrselassie, Kipchoge, Lagat are also very possibly / likely clean.
But if you subscribe to the belief that a very doped Elite Talent will always beat a very clean Elite Talent then you cannot make an exception for Jacob and *must* conclude that he is a doper.
His success has certainly put the "everyone is a Doper!" and "all the crazy fast times are done by dopers" crowd in a bind. But of course most just resort to inconsistencies / hypocrisy and deem Jakob the ultimate exception to all the rules. Sad.
I'm shaking my head right now man............our sport is doomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Friggin doomed man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm haunted by the way Jakob speaks with such vanity and braggadocio!!!!!!!!!!!! He reminds me of what you bring up----LANCE ARMSTRONG THAT SH$TTY IMMORAL CHARACTER!!!!!
Someone better save and stop Jakob from going down that route.
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