Let’s say high school. Let me be clear I’m not kicking anyone off my time right now, not in a position to do that. But I might be someday. I’m interested in what other people’s red lines are beyond the obvious infractions that everyone knows would result in dismissal. I mean we all know that if coach catches you selling amphetamines to teammates before the dual meet, ya gotta go.
But what about less obvious instances? If a kid is extremely talented but lazy and this prompts other kids to laziness? A older kid is always giving the younger ones a hard time, making it hard for the younger ones to thrive?
I would not kick anyone off a HS team unless they were being disrespectful to the coaches or teammates.
Re: Laziness (not showing up to practice), you just refuse to enter them in any relays, or important meets. If they ask why they aren't going to the Sat. invitational, tell them why.
I got kicked off my college team because I bought beer for a party. At that party a super-talented freshman got drunk and punched his girlfriend. Someone needed to take the fall, and the coach wasn’t going to lose the talented freshman.
Totally backfired on the coach. Everyone knew what happened was wrong. Team fell apart. Several high profile transfers. He ended up getting fired.
There are two sets of factors I'd consider: rules-based factors (has the athlete in question broken any stated rules?) and team dynamics
Rules-based factors - Many public high schools are limited in what they can do because being on the team is for course credit. Often, it will be the case that you have to check with principal before you can do something like that OR you can soft ban them by giving them a bad grade. - For college teams, I think it's a question tied to scholarships, performances, and more highly specified team rules/expectations.
Team Dynamics - Good teams thrive on culture. NAU is a good example right now. Generally, Mike Smith looks for pretty selfless guys, gets them to train hard, and do things for the good of the team. In this case, if guys are not working in line with the culture Mike Smith has created, I think it's probably a sequence of events where you outline expectations and if they do it more then you kick them off. - I've been kicked off of my college team for drinking/drinking with other kids on the team/otherwise being a bad influence. I felt bad about it and then worked hard to get back on the team and was eventually let back on.
Something people don't consider as much, especially with college teams, is that people on your team often live together and train together, so it's not necessarily like you kick the kid off your team and your problems are solved. The best solution is to get their interests aligned exactly to where you want them to be and that solves the overall culture piece a bit more.
It is a good point above that (especially on a college team) kicking off one bad actor may not cause the problem. I remember I had a teammate in college who got kicked off for too much partying yet we all still partied with him every weekend and he hosted some great times at his house for the team. I probably should have been kicked off in retrospect.
There are two sets of factors I'd consider: rules-based factors (has the athlete in question broken any stated rules?) and team dynamics
Rules-based factors - Many public high schools are limited in what they can do because being on the team is for course credit. Often, it will be the case that you have to check with principal before you can do something like that OR you can soft ban them by giving them a bad grade. - For college teams, I think it's a question tied to scholarships, performances, and more highly specified team rules/expectations.
Team Dynamics - Good teams thrive on culture. NAU is a good example right now. Generally, Mike Smith looks for pretty selfless guys, gets them to train hard, and do things for the good of the team. In this case, if guys are not working in line with the culture Mike Smith has created, I think it's probably a sequence of events where you outline expectations and if they do it more then you kick them off. - I've been kicked off of my college team for drinking/drinking with other kids on the team/otherwise being a bad influence. I felt bad about it and then worked hard to get back on the team and was eventually let back on.
Something people don't consider as much, especially with college teams, is that people on your team often live together and train together, so it's not necessarily like you kick the kid off your team and your problems are solved. The best solution is to get their interests aligned exactly to where you want them to be and that solves the overall culture piece a bit more.
Yea I think if we are talking HS here, I think all of us are aware that historically track and filed is WAY more tolerant of non commitment. In other words I think it has been accepted in most places that if someone wants to come to track or XC...have at it...its physical activity if nothing else (and they put it on there college app)? Try that on the football team! But as far as im concerned you should be able to choose the depth of your commitment. Just realize you wont be doing any meets anytime soon. My feeling for kicking off the team is aside from the obvious like fights or drugs...you can be a non engaged athlete if you like, but if you are not engaged AND you are interfering with others..then you get a few warnings and out you go. You can be a slacker and run track, but you cant infect others.
Talk about your experiences if you can. When, in your opinion, is it time to cut an athlete loose? Maybe the hardest decision any coach has to make.
First, I would need some understanding of what is going on. If a kid is not showing up to practices (for unexcused reasons) then what might be going on. Is the kid having trouble arranging transportation after practice back home? Are there financial issues? Are the parents splitting up?
Let’s say high school. Let me be clear I’m not kicking anyone off my time right now, not in a position to do that. But I might be someday. I’m interested in what other people’s red lines are beyond the obvious infractions that everyone knows would result in dismissal. I mean we all know that if coach catches you selling amphetamines to teammates before the dual meet, ya gotta go.
But what about less obvious instances? If a kid is extremely talented but lazy and this prompts other kids to laziness? A older kid is always giving the younger ones a hard time, making it hard for the younger ones to thrive?
To me it has to start with your coaching philosophy. What is your "why" regarding your coaching.
Next, you have to look at school rules. Some are beyond your control to change or be flexible with. At my HS you could not participate in sports if you got an F (we had no Ds). Are there other ones like that?
It is a good point above that (especially on a college team) kicking off one bad actor may not cause the problem. I remember I had a teammate in college who got kicked off for too much partying yet we all still partied with him every weekend and he hosted some great times at his house for the team. I probably should have been kicked off in retrospect.
It is a good point above that (especially on a college team) kicking off one bad actor may not cause the problem. I remember I had a teammate in college who got kicked off for too much partying yet we all still partied with him every weekend and he hosted some great times at his house for the team. I probably should have been kicked off in retrospect.
Let’s say high school. Let me be clear I’m not kicking anyone off my time right now, not in a position to do that. But I might be someday. I’m interested in what other people’s red lines are beyond the obvious infractions that everyone knows would result in dismissal. I mean we all know that if coach catches you selling amphetamines to teammates before the dual meet, ya gotta go.
But what about less obvious instances? If a kid is extremely talented but lazy and this prompts other kids to laziness? A older kid is always giving the younger ones a hard time, making it hard for the younger ones to thrive?
That doesn't do it for me & sounds more/less like a lot of HSers. Seems like a good coaching opportunity. Would really only cut someone if it's something way out there. People inching towards that direction are usually looking for some attention & you can do a lot more for them when they're on the team versus whatever might happen if they start to lose some of the only structure they might have.
Good topic. . Let me share 30 years of high school coaching experience.
1. Being able to manage kids is more important then knowing a lot about track;
2. Explain the rules the first day;
3. Apply the rules the same to everyone;
4. Enforce the rules.
It sounds simple but it isn’t. Most coaches want it more than the athletes. They give good athletes exceptions and the other athletes see it and expect the same treatment. Pretty soon it’s chaos.
First day I basically say we practice Monday through Friday 3 to 4:20. If you are in school, you are here, no exceptions. Mom can’t excuse you, you can’t go to work. If you have to stay after school for something, you report to the track for a 20 minute work out ( which is 20 minutes of sprint 20 seconds/jog 40 seconds). Kids hate it.
You can forgive someone while also acknowledging that your team is better off without them. You don't have to hold resentment toward someone to make a logical decision to terminate your association with them for the good of the rest of the group.
Yea but think about them and how it affects them and not yourself first
That's exactly why they should be kicked off the team. Assuming you have already tried to talk to them about it, it should affect them to be told, "Your behavior is so bad that it negatively affects a lot of other people. And the group feels we would better off without your behavior." That should be a figurative gut punch. They need it at this point. People are tired of their act, and they aren't listening.
If this person is redeemable, and just talking didn't change things, then this should cause some introspection and desire to improve. And if you want to be forgiving, add that if they want to try to come back later, we can talk about it.
An example of what happens if you don’t enforce the same rules for everyone: about 10 years ago I was the girls coach at school with some great boy sprinters and a young coach. There was a kid on the baseball team who was super fast, who his junior year wanted to do track and baseball. The track coach agreed he could practice twice a week with the track team and the kid ends up being small school state champion. Boys coach gets lots of accolades, is county coach of the year, etc.
The kid’s senior year it’s suppose to be the same arrangement but the kid never comes to practice, he runs some meets, gets to decide what he wants to run and the coach never calls him on it. Midway through the season the team is headed to an invitational. We are getting to leave and the kid isn’t on the bus, the boys coach is already at the meet and asks me to call the kid to see where he is. His dad answers and says he will ask his son if he feels like running and will be there if he does ( he was a no show ).
After a couple meets like that, the other kids on the team figured out the star wasn’t coming to practice so they started cutting practice. By the end of the year, there were only about 25% 0f the boys showing up regularly. The next year kids knew they didn’t need to show up and in 2 years the program was in shambles.
When they get a tattoo. When they wear a Che Guevara T-shirt.
When they have rainbows on their running shoes.
When they use foul language repeatedly.
When they disrespect God, Country, or fellow teammates.
I seriously hope you’re not in a coaching position, and if you are I feel sorry for your athletes that have to deal with your unhinged lunacy.
And if you are a coach, I feel sorry for your athletes that they have a coach so unaware of the world that you can't even recognize an obvious troll post, and a pretty poor one at that.
I got kicked off the track team one season in HS because I was present at school that day but couldn't go to the meet. I had another obligation that came up at the last minute and had to choose. I did not have a strong family life at home for guidance and the whole thing was really upsetting. As a young high schooler I also had no idea that not going to the meet would result in me getting kicked off the team. I never ran track again after that.
Suspensions are not a bad idea. Gives the kid time to think about what it’s like away from the team.
I agree with this statement if I take it literally. I am afraid I disagree with the poster, though. Giving kids a chance to see what training is like without your involvement will likely result in them not coming back. When I was in high school, my training group was much better than the track team. There weren't really any distance runners on the team and I assume you had to obey the coach and all that. If you don't give them the boot, they may not be aware that they can train, race, and socialize without you. Hold on to them for dear life or they could just forget about you and you're out of a job.
An example of what happens if you don’t enforce the same rules for everyone: about 10 years ago I was the girls coach at school with some great boy sprinters and a young coach. There was a kid on the baseball team who was super fast, who his junior year wanted to do track and baseball. The track coach agreed he could practice twice a week with the track team and the kid ends up being small school state champion. Boys coach gets lots of accolades, is county coach of the year, etc.
The kid’s senior year it’s suppose to be the same arrangement but the kid never comes to practice, he runs some meets, gets to decide what he wants to run and the coach never calls him on it. Midway through the season the team is headed to an invitational. We are getting to leave and the kid isn’t on the bus, the boys coach is already at the meet and asks me to call the kid to see where he is. His dad answers and says he will ask his son if he feels like running and will be there if he does ( he was a no show ).
After a couple meets like that, the other kids on the team figured out the star wasn’t coming to practice so they started cutting practice. By the end of the year, there were only about 25% 0f the boys showing up regularly. The next year kids knew they didn’t need to show up and in 2 years the program was in shambles.
For me its a case by case basis. They are expected to be at practice if they are in school. But I am not punishing a girl because she's class president and shes has student government stuff after school, or shes doing some volunteer work ... that doesnt seem to send the right message.
if someone is laying round and half a s s ing it... yeah hit the bricks.
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.