Her team is essentially an all-star team. She is a great recruiter but not much of a coach. Her own daughter made improvements as soon as she got away from Mom. I guess you don't expect much improvement for Tuohy since Henes is such a great coach. Too bad. Adidas was hoping.
Give Henes her flowers.
An all star team? Let's go back to classes 2019-2021. Let's look at the trajectories of the "all stars" who were recruited from that class, what schools they went to and how they panned out. I hate doing this because it puts other athletes on the spot and I don't think anyone is a failure, but as long as there's a whole thread bashing Henes a 3X NCAA XC Champion coach for no reason, we're doing this.
Zofia Dudek
Taylor Ewert
Katelynne Hart
Sydney Mascarelli
London Culbreath
Lexy Halladay
Alexis Morris
Abi Archer
Tori Gaitan
To name a few.
The idea that all you have to do is recruit to get a championship team is BS. How many "phenoms" went to college and their careers tanked? In fact it was the NORM for a high school phenom to never be heard from again in college and Tuohy is walking away with 4 NCAA titles, one in cross, and a pro contract. Besides Seidel, she is the only woman to win the national title both in HS and college.
I'm honestly not even that big of a henes fan but this thread pisses me off. What does she have to do to prove her coaching chops? 3X championship not enough. Being one of the first to nurture a high school phenom to future success? Salazar couldn't do that. neither could the Oregon coaches. But Henes did it.
I was just going to do this. Recall Dudek was "1A". Add Tori Starcher, then Thorvaldson the next year, then Hutchins......then Cook.....the list goes on
Your analysis didn't prove that Henes didn't get the best overall group of recruits from that time period. You actually showed that she is a superior recruiter. She was able to discern which elite runners had topped out in high school. Graham Blanks would be an example of somebody who was coached from obscurity to elite. Henes is a superior recruiter. Stop putting her recruiting ability down.
Your analysis didn't prove that Henes didn't get the best overall group of recruits from that time period. You actually showed that she is a superior recruiter. She was able to discern which elite runners had topped out in high school. Graham Blanks would be an example of somebody who was coached from obscurity to elite. Henes is a superior recruiter. Stop putting her recruiting ability down.
This exchange is very funny because there is another thread yesterday where people were arguing about whether NC state's recruiting has been good enough in the years after the 2020 class with Tuohy/Starliper/Walters, with the NC state fans having to defend the recruiting.
Your analysis didn't prove that Henes didn't get the best overall group of recruits from that time period. You actually showed that she is a superior recruiter. She was able to discern which elite runners had topped out in high school. Graham Blanks would be an example of somebody who was coached from obscurity to elite. Henes is a superior recruiter. Stop putting her recruiting ability down.
Well here on letstroll.com, the top 2 NC State recruits during this time period, Tuohy and Chmiel were routinely described as topped out or burned out from high mileage and their prior success in high school, and yet….
I was just going to do this. Recall Dudek was "1A". Add Tori Starcher, then Thorvaldson the next year, then Hutchins......then Cook.....the list goes on
Oh my, I had forgotten about 1A and 1B and that clickbait take by Dyestat. Aged like milk in the Texas summer sun for sure.
Those people were incorrect. Henes knew better. She is a superior recruiter.
I think you are giving her too much credit in recruiting Tuohy. Tuohy in her recent interview was a little surprised that Henes did not call as often as other coaches. NC State, and they have said this, seems to rely on letting athletes see their program/athletes in action and how they interact, and lets the recruit decide if that is appealing. It happened to be appealing to Tuohy. And every other program lost out.
Her team is essentially an all-star team. She is a great recruiter but not much of a coach. Her own daughter made improvements as soon as she got away from Mom. I guess you don't expect much improvement for Tuohy since Henes is such a great coach. Too bad. Adidas was hoping.
Sam Bush and Gracie Hartmann from Ohio were good, but definitely not all-stars in the national sense. But somehow they ended up in the top-5 on a national championship squad, finishing ahead of other much more highly decorated HS runners at NCAAs.
How did this happen? Think maybe Coach Henes had something - anything - to do with it?
Those people were incorrect. Henes knew better. She is a superior recruiter.
Coaching is one third each of recruiting, developing, and getting your team healthy to the line when it matters. There's also a lot of luck.
Nc st was just a good regional team until Henes got lucky with daughter Elly, Chmiel and Touhy - all 3 who were remarkably durable. That group also created a team environment that people wanted to be a part of.
That environment brought Steelman, Hays, Moreno, Tyynismaa, Rauber, Gapes, Stephens etc.
Even in the famous Touhy class with Touhy, Starliper, Walters, Schultz and Hendricks, only Touhy has ever scored for nc state on an NCAA team! That just shows how hard it is to turn a recruit into a result.
Again back to luck. Elly was daughter getting school at family price and coached by mom. Chmiel researched schools carefully and picked nc state mostly for the highly ranked vet program. Touhy just felt best with Chmiel and team Henes, and wanted warm school on East Coast. So it all just fell into place, it wasn't by any means a high pressure 'recruitment' for these 3.
Also worth noting that Coach Henes also kept her Ohio pipeline going thru this period with Clairmonte, Bush and Hartman.
So largely this beautiful recruiting hand happened thru good fortune and Coach Henes played it well. During the threepeat and even the year prior in 2nd, she got 5 healthy to the line and performed close to perfect. Still a little more luck was needed as Moreno's run in '22 and OSU and BYU imploding in '23 allowed for the last 2 wins.
Now that the stars are done with xc, recruiting gets interesting again for the pack. We will see if Henes can stay on the podium, or if they slip back to being a regional power.
Those people were incorrect. Henes knew better. She is a superior recruiter.
Coaching is one third each of recruiting, developing, and getting your team healthy to the line when it matters. There's also a lot of luck.
Nc st was just a good regional team until Henes got lucky with daughter Elly, Chmiel and Touhy - all 3 who were remarkably durable. That group also created a team environment that people wanted to be a part of.
That environment brought Steelman, Hays, Moreno, Tyynismaa, Rauber, Gapes, Stephens etc.
Even in the famous Touhy class with Touhy, Starliper, Walters, Schultz and Hendricks, only Touhy has ever scored for nc state on an NCAA team! That just shows how hard it is to turn a recruit into a result.
Again back to luck. Elly was daughter getting school at family price and coached by mom. Chmiel researched schools carefully and picked nc state mostly for the highly ranked vet program. Touhy just felt best with Chmiel and team Henes, and wanted warm school on East Coast. So it all just fell into place, it wasn't by any means a high pressure 'recruitment' for these 3.
Also worth noting that Coach Henes also kept her Ohio pipeline going thru this period with Clairmonte, Bush and Hartman.
So largely this beautiful recruiting hand happened thru good fortune and Coach Henes played it well. During the threepeat and even the year prior in 2nd, she got 5 healthy to the line and performed close to perfect. Still a little more luck was needed as Moreno's run in '22 and OSU and BYU imploding in '23 allowed for the last 2 wins.
Now that the stars are done with xc, recruiting gets interesting again for the pack. We will see if Henes can stay on the podium, or if they slip back to being a regional power.
Agree on almost all points, but would argue that prior to the Tuohy era NC State's women's cross country team, historically, was more than just a "good regional team". They won back to back team cross country National Championships in 1979 and 1980, when the sport was governed by the AIAW, just one year prior to the sport coming under the NCAA. Also, they finished 2nd as a team at the NCAA Championships twice prior to 2020: in 1987 and 2001.
And I can't remember the exact stats on this, but I think I heard it mentioned that NC State's women have made it to the NCAA Championship race as a team more than any other program.
Coaching is one third each of recruiting, developing, and getting your team healthy to the line when it matters. There's also a lot of luck.
Nc st was just a good regional team until Henes got lucky with daughter Elly, Chmiel and Touhy - all 3 who were remarkably durable. That group also created a team environment that people wanted to be a part of.
That environment brought Steelman, Hays, Moreno, Tyynismaa, Rauber, Gapes, Stephens etc.
Even in the famous Touhy class with Touhy, Starliper, Walters, Schultz and Hendricks, only Touhy has ever scored for nc state on an NCAA team! That just shows how hard it is to turn a recruit into a result.
Again back to luck. Elly was daughter getting school at family price and coached by mom. Chmiel researched schools carefully and picked nc state mostly for the highly ranked vet program. Touhy just felt best with Chmiel and team Henes, and wanted warm school on East Coast. So it all just fell into place, it wasn't by any means a high pressure 'recruitment' for these 3.
Also worth noting that Coach Henes also kept her Ohio pipeline going thru this period with Clairmonte, Bush and Hartman.
So largely this beautiful recruiting hand happened thru good fortune and Coach Henes played it well. During the threepeat and even the year prior in 2nd, she got 5 healthy to the line and performed close to perfect. Still a little more luck was needed as Moreno's run in '22 and OSU and BYU imploding in '23 allowed for the last 2 wins.
Now that the stars are done with xc, recruiting gets interesting again for the pack. We will see if Henes can stay on the podium, or if they slip back to being a regional power.
Agree on almost all points, but would argue that prior to the Tuohy era NC State's women's cross country team, historically, was more than just a "good regional team". They won back to back team cross country National Championships in 1979 and 1980, when the sport was governed by the AIAW, just one year prior to the sport coming under the NCAA. Also, they finished 2nd as a team at the NCAA Championships twice prior to 2020: in 1987 and 2001.
And I can't remember the exact stats on this, but I think I heard it mentioned that NC State's women have made it to the NCAA Championship race as a team more than any other program.
If we go full history then yes you are correct, NC State is a very successful program historically. Lots of podium finishes and the AIAW titles. But Geiger handed over womens distance to Henes in 2006 i believe and the start wasn't that smooth. From 2006-2014 they missed NCAA's 4 times and never finished in the top 15. 2015 and 2016 was when she started figuring it out going 5th and 4th. Then Elly Henes started to develop and then Chmiel came in and everything obviously accelerated from there.
North Carolina State University's All-American cross country runners Julie Shea (left) and Mary Shea (right).. Black and white print (photograph); 10 x 8 inches
Sure there is. At most colleges faculty and staff have full tuition covered for their kids. Thru an exchange program you can often even have the child's tuition covered at another school. They could have also just used a scholarship on Elly, but wasn't really necessary.
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