Latest Kenyan doper brings into question all the rest…

Agree.

Kenyan total ban is long overdue.

We will never know the politics that Seb Coe has to navigate. From the outside looking in, and for some time, it has been so blatantly obvious, that especially in Kenya, doping is rampant.

Ask yourself the question. With all of these busts (thank you AIU) why have the athletes not come clean on the apparatus. The dirty agents, coaches, doctors, pharmacists, athletic officials, extortionists. The only answer is fear. The fear of being killed, family members killed. This has to be a cartel like set up and Kenya is the worst offender of the Eastern African countries.

It was laughable with age fraud in athletics and having men compete in World Youth and World Junior championships. To the point that Seb Coe cancelled the World Youth championships. It was laughable when age fraud in football/soccer and having men compete in FIFA U-17 World Cup and FIFA introduced wrist bone density testing to catch age fraud. By the way MRI is 99% accurate until the age of 17.

I use the point of age Fraud (predominantly used by African federations to cheat their way to success) merely as an alternate example of how athletes are exploited by federations all the way down the line. And for some strange reason the facilitators are never taken to task.

Its Africa… corruption is rampant EVERYWHERE. Sports is an opportunity that is capitalized on. There are no ramifications for the athlete if caught (an they don’t squeal) other than his/her career is over and none of their winnings are taken away. Winning $10,000 in a race goes much further in the Rift Valley then in the Western World. Societal and morality norms are completely different on the African continent.

Nevertheless, Kenyan Athletics needs to be taken to task. The prize winnings, medals, fame that has been stolen from other athletes who get beaten by dopers is THEFT.

World Athletics needs to take a stand. It’s organized doping in Kenya. Not to the extent of Russian state sponsored but pretty dam close.

Why do we see so much dominance in almost anything above 800m on the track from specifically the Kenyan and Ethiopian teams?

This is something I've contemplated as a hypothetical:

What would happen if prize money was significantly reduced at all races--mid-tier to majors? What would that mean for competition? What would it mean for shoe companies? What would it mean for athletes? What would it mean for the love of the sport?

Nothing im about to say is shockingly new information but I think put together it is a strong argument. Kenya roughly has the population of GB, France, and Italy. Those countries are all highly competitive on the world stage in soccer, cricket, basketball (relatively), rugby, sprint events, distance events, field events, etc etc etc. The athletic pool is distributed to all those other sports. Soccer is the most popular sport in kenya but distance running is clearly #2, and the participation as a % of population is much higher in Kenya than those other european countries. A large % of the top athletes in Kenya participate in mid-long distance running. Combine that with the prevalence of better coaching, elevation, climate and local popularity, its safe to assume they will perform better compared to other countries. The sponsorship opportunities is more competitive because of the larger talent and participation pool, incentivizing better performances. I think its more common than we give credence that some athletes can give a world record type performance and begin to decline and then start to juice for all of the obvious reasons. While I do believe that anyone who gets popped for PEDs should have all records and medals revoked, I don't think that it means all people who get popped have always been using PEDs, even at the time of their peak. Also I think the guys who get popped are usually along the lines of 2:10 marathoners off the gear, but 2:03-2:05 on the stuff. It's not like we're talking about a 3:00 guy getting some EPO and testosterone and running 2:05.

In 1958 the WR for the marathon was 2:15. So it's taken 65 years to shave 15 minutes. Between 1958 and 2002 (44 years) 10 minutes was taken off (5 minutes every 20 years). Since 2002 (21 years) five minutes again. How many humans even knew about the marathon in 1958? Has every man who broke the world record since 1958 been on PEDs? What would they have run in 1958 with modern training methods, nutrition, super shoes etc? The 15 minutes taken off from 1958 till now equals 900 seconds, 35 seconds per mile, or about .5 seconds/mile per year. If you think it's impossible that humans can't run 2:00:35 without PEDs, than you have to also think that everyone who has ever broken a WR in the marathon was also on PEDs. When Kelvin Kiptum crossed the finish line, he was elated, because he knew he earned it, and he knew it wasn't getting taken away. Similarly with Kipchoge, who has been the elite distance runner at every event 5K up since his early 20's. It's not suspicious its just incredible.

"there are no ramifications if caught other than his career is over"

hahahahaha. you have no incentive to be clean except if you cheat and get caught your livelihood is gone...

The people with nothing to lose (a 2:10 guy that no one has ever heard of an no sponsorships) has every incentive to try and cheat and get away with it. Nothing we can do about that. Punishing someone legally for cheating at sports is insane.

It is not insane. Most countries have laws against fraud. In particular fraud that results in economic gain.

The “Liver King” is currently being sued for $25M for using steroids but claiming his results were solely his diet and the supplements he was selling.

my point is that prosecuting for fraud for cheating won't change anything. yeah maybe logically it makes sense that it my disincentivize people from cheating in first world countries where people have more to lose, but a guy who can run 2:10 in Kenya with no money? All he's going to do is find new ways to not get caught.

No casual sports fan has ever heard of Titus Ekiru, let alone would hear about this ban. With Kiptum, Kipchoge, Hassan and the women WRs if anything the marathon is getting more press than ever. I think the waning of tracks popularity has much more to do with options for fans and lack of exposure than B-list drug busts.

There will always be murders, many where the murderer is never caught. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have laws against murder or not prosecute murder cases.

Your post exemplifies the mentality/morality that is the problem.

With this/your clarification your point does make some sense.

Civilization works when there are ramifications for wrongdoing. I view doping in athletics as Theft from others.

All dopers guaranteed. Far easier to get away with it than get popped, especially if you do your due diligence in studying how to avoid pi.ssing hot.

What a sick person you are.

yes it should

Cheating is rampant even in youth sports. Jail for age cheating in youth soccer and not for doping in running?

The Benin Football Federation has imposed jail sentence to its players for age cheating at Afcon U-17 qualifiers. A Cotonou court on Tuesday sentenced ten players and an official to prison for age cheating and fraud charges. This is after Benin were expelled from the 2019 Under-17 African Cup of Nations qualifiers after half of the team failed the MRI [Magnetic Resonance Imaging] test last month-September.

It has been a hugely embarrassing episode for the proud nation of Cameroon and their 'Indomitable Lions' football teams.
Their Under-17 side were preparing to play Central African qualifying games in the Nations Cup this month when it was found 21 of the 30-strong squad failed age tests.
Fresh players were quickly drafted in by coach Jean Pierre Fiala but, in a further humiliation, it was discovered that 11 of the additions were also over-age

I've been making this point here for the last 5 years. Btw, it doesn't matter if soccer is the most popular sport in Kenya. There are only two professional.Kenyan soccer players. Soccer is not taking any talent away in Kenya. Also, attendances at Kenyan soccer matches are 5000.at most, if it's a local Derby between the two top Nairobi teams. Remember when Kenya broke the world attendance record recently for a junior athletics championship?

The ONLY explanation anyone would possibly believe Usain Bolt was clean comes down to the innate and default human conditions of wishful and fearful thinking.

Wishful that what we witness/ed was real and fearful that in the event it wasn't, what that means for every other athlete/athletic performance that we give/gave adulation to ("if we can't believe Bolt then who can we believe?")

But you can also choose to accept the way the world and people are and be fine with it, or you can choose to live in a fantasy world. I guess neither way are right or wrong.

Pretty much describes every American distance runner.