Here is a list of Americans ranked #1 in T & F News. Dyrol Burlson: 1961 Jim Ryun: 1967, 1968 Marty Liquori: 1969, 1971 Mary Slaney: 1983, 1985 Morgan Uceny: 2011 Jenny Simpson: 2014 Shelby Houlihan: 2018
Here are the Americans that achieved a #2 ranking. Wes Santee: 1953 Jim Beatty: 1961, 1962 Dyrol Burlson: 1963 Jim Ryun: 1968 Steve Scott: 1982, 1983 Regina Jacobs: 1997 Bernard Lagat: 2005, 2007 Jenny Simpson: 2013
Has any American other than Lagat had a higher ranking? I know these rankings are flawed (Katir doesn’t have enough performances to be ranked) but Nuguse has put together quite a streak of races in the past year.
Umm Ever heard of Ryan Crouser or Sydney McLaughlin-Levrone? There is a world outside of middle distance running and the US is the dominant nation
Has any American other than Lagat had a higher ranking? I know these rankings are flawed (Katir doesn’t have enough performances to be ranked) but Nuguse has put together quite a streak of races in the past year.
Umm Ever heard of Ryan Crouser or Sydney McLaughlin-Levrone? There is a world outside of middle distance running and the US is the dominant nation
This thread is very clearly about ranking in the 1500/mile.
Has any American other than Lagat had a higher ranking? I know these rankings are flawed (Katir doesn’t have enough performances to be ranked) but Nuguse has put together quite a streak of races in the past year.
Probably not for men (Jim Ryun might've been number one for awhile if the rankings existed back in the late 60s). It's possible Jenny Simpson could have been #1 or #2 had the rankings been around at the end of 2014. Her ranking eligible results would have included a win in the 2014 Diamond league final and a runner-up finish at the 2013 WC.
TFN rankings #1 in world in mile/1500m
Dyrol Burleson 1961.
Jim Ryun 1966 and 1967.
Mary Liquori 1969 and 1971.
Steve Scott reached # 2 in 1982 and 1983 with 7 top tens.
Americans getting top ten rankings since 1990: Joe Falcon (#3 in 1990); Jim Spivey #10 in 1991, #9 in 1992, and #5 in 1993; Steve Holman #5 in 1994, #4 in 1995, and #10 in 1997; Excluding Lagat who began his world class career as a Kenyan; Alan Webb #7 in 2005 and #6 in 2007; Leo Manzano (#6) and Andrew Wheating (#9) in 2010; Leo also had a #9 in 2012; Matt C # 8 in 2011, #5 in 2012, #8 in 2013, #10 in 2015, and #5 in 2016; Craig Engels (!) # 8 in 2019, and Cole Hocker # 10 in 2021.
Pretty sparse.
Have to say Steve Scott is # 1 American miler (excluding Lagat) based on his career
Even if Katir had another good race for a ranking I think Nuguse would be higher. Remember Nuguse beat Katir indoors by more than Katir beat Nuguse outdoors. And Nuguse also has his 3:47 mile from this indoor season. I do think Nuguse doesn't have as crazy of a kick as some of these other guys though. He is a great time trial runner, he showed that in college as well with his 3:34? 1500 NCAA record at the ACC prelims but couldn't win the championship races later in the season. I hope I'm wrong, but if it's halfway tactical in Budapest I think he misses a medal. Only if it's a 3:30.XX or faster race will he get a medal.
He's not jsut a time trialer. He didn't win the championship races later in 2021, but he ran as well as -- in fact, probably better than - expected. He lost a tough stretch duel to Cole Hocker at NCAAs, then finished 3rd in the USATF champs to make the Olympic team, showing a good kick both times.
We're talking about getting top 3 at the world championships, not at the US championships of NCAAs. I'm sticking to what I said, he is ranked #2, probably even with Katir. But I don't have faith in his kick in a world championship final and there are too many guys right on his heels. He also gets bumped around easier than most people for whatever reason, maybe he isn't standing his ground enough. At this point, unfortunately, I think it's more likely he does not win a medal than he does.
Even if Katir had another good race for a ranking I think Nuguse would be higher. Remember Nuguse beat Katir indoors by more than Katir beat Nuguse outdoors. And Nuguse also has his 3:47 mile from this indoor season. I do think Nuguse doesn't have as crazy of a kick as some of these other guys though. He is a great time trial runner, he showed that in college as well with his 3:34? 1500 NCAA record at the ACC prelims but couldn't win the championship races later in the season. I hope I'm wrong, but if it's halfway tactical in Budapest I think he misses a medal. Only if it's a 3:30.XX or faster race will he get a medal.
People said that before the US championship, and said that Teare had the best skillset for either a fast or a slow-kickers race. How did that work out?
But anyway, medals are hard to get. Of course it would be difficult for him to get one - he's not Jakob.
He's not jsut a time trialer. He didn't win the championship races later in 2021, but he ran as well as -- in fact, probably better than - expected. He lost a tough stretch duel to Cole Hocker at NCAAs, then finished 3rd in the USATF champs to make the Olympic team, showing a good kick both times.
We're talking about getting top 3 at the world championships, not at the US championships of NCAAs. I'm sticking to what I said, he is ranked #2, probably even with Katir. But I don't have faith in his kick in a world championship final and there are too many guys right on his heels. He also gets bumped around easier than most people for whatever reason, maybe he isn't standing his ground enough. At this point, unfortunately, I think it's more likely he does not win a medal than he does.
I think that’s probably true for everyone except Ingebrigtsen. Still, having perhaps the second best chance of winning a medal is pretty good…
Steve Scott reached # 2 in 1982 and 1983 with 7 top tens.
Americans getting top ten rankings since 1990: Joe Falcon (#3 in 1990); Jim Spivey #10 in 1991, #9 in 1992, and #5 in 1993; Steve Holman #5 in 1994, #4 in 1995, and #10 in 1997; Excluding Lagat who began his world class career as a Kenyan; Alan Webb #7 in 2005 and #6 in 2007; Leo Manzano (#6) and Andrew Wheating (#9) in 2010; Leo also had a #9 in 2012; Matt C # 8 in 2011, #5 in 2012, #8 in 2013, #10 in 2015, and #5 in 2016; Craig Engels (!) # 8 in 2019, and Cole Hocker # 10 in 2021.
Pretty sparse.
Have to say Steve Scott is # 1 American miler (excluding Lagat) based on his career
Jeez I've never looked into Steve Scott, but I put Centro at the #1 spot over Lagat so I looked at his wikipedia so I knew how to disagree with you. He was crazy though. 3:36 in 1977 and a 3:37 in 1991. Apparently he was gonna go for a sub-4 mile at age 40 and didn't because he got cancer. Actually nutty. He's also credited with creating speed golf.
He ran a 3:47 mile that was #2 all time, got a silver medal in 1983, and came 5th in 1988. Gotta say, this dude was so good, but wow he choked hard in some big races. Last in the 1987 final and next to last in the 1984 final. Wild that he was so good for so long, was consistent enough to run the most sub-4 miles ever, and even had championship success, but was inconsistent in the biggest races. Are there videos of his best races floating around? I'd love to see them.
I still think Centro is the #1 miler, but now I have a lot more respect for how good Scott was. My mind changed on Centro in the last couple weeks because I realized he has a WC silver and gold, on top of Oly gold, since I don't count Kiprop. That beats out Lagat's WC gold and bronze. Lagat had the AR, while Centro only had the #3 time, but I think the Olympic gold outweighs that by a bunch.
Scott was unlucky because apparently they only held WCs once every 4 years back then for some reason (why did WA decide that 4 wasn't enough, so they added more, but still leave 1/4 years without any championships???), and his first Olympics the US was boycotting (although it doesn't look like he was in his prime yet based off his SBs). Still, if you even things out and don't count Centro's first Olympics (4th lol), and only count his first 2 WCs, he's still got the same medal record.
3:47 for #2 all time is crazy, but it doesn't mean as much if you're not winning medals. Also! to bring Nuguse back into the discussion, I just remembered he also ran 3:47 for #2 all time. If he medals this year, he won't be far from matching Scott's accomplishments in only his first year as a pro. Far from a given of course, but Scott was ranked #2 in the world twice, and Nuguse has now had it once, and they both ran #2 all time miles. I kinda doubt Nuguse is gonna come close to Scott's 130+ sub-4 miles, but I'm really excited to watch him now. He's the first American miler I've seen that is actually a gold medal threat, and he's won a DL and has been top 3 in the others he's run.
Steve Scott reached # 2 in 1982 and 1983 with 7 top tens.
Americans getting top ten rankings since 1990: Joe Falcon (#3 in 1990); Jim Spivey #10 in 1991, #9 in 1992, and #5 in 1993; Steve Holman #5 in 1994, #4 in 1995, and #10 in 1997; Excluding Lagat who began his world class career as a Kenyan; Alan Webb #7 in 2005 and #6 in 2007; Leo Manzano (#6) and Andrew Wheating (#9) in 2010; Leo also had a #9 in 2012; Matt C # 8 in 2011, #5 in 2012, #8 in 2013, #10 in 2015, and #5 in 2016; Craig Engels (!) # 8 in 2019, and Cole Hocker # 10 in 2021.
Pretty sparse.
Have to say Steve Scott is # 1 American miler (excluding Lagat) based on his career
Jeez I've never looked into Steve Scott, but I put Centro at the #1 spot over Lagat so I looked at his wikipedia so I knew how to disagree with you. He was crazy though. 3:36 in 1977 and a 3:37 in 1991. Apparently he was gonna go for a sub-4 mile at age 40 and didn't because he got cancer. Actually nutty. He's also credited with creating speed golf.
He ran a 3:47 mile that was #2 all time, got a silver medal in 1983, and came 5th in 1988. Gotta say, this dude was so good, but wow he choked hard in some big races. Last in the 1987 final and next to last in the 1984 final. Wild that he was so good for so long, was consistent enough to run the most sub-4 miles ever, and even had championship success, but was inconsistent in the biggest races. Are there videos of his best races floating around? I'd love to see them.
I still think Centro is the #1 miler, but now I have a lot more respect for how good Scott was. My mind changed on Centro in the last couple weeks because I realized he has a WC silver and gold, on top of Oly gold, since I don't count Kiprop. That beats out Lagat's WC gold and bronze. Lagat had the AR, while Centro only had the #3 time, but I think the Olympic gold outweighs that by a bunch.
Scott was unlucky because apparently they only held WCs once every 4 years back then for some reason (why did WA decide that 4 wasn't enough, so they added more, but still leave 1/4 years without any championships???), and his first Olympics the US was boycotting (although it doesn't look like he was in his prime yet based off his SBs). Still, if you even things out and don't count Centro's first Olympics (4th lol), and only count his first 2 WCs, he's still got the same medal record.
3:47 for #2 all time is crazy, but it doesn't mean as much if you're not winning medals. Also! to bring Nuguse back into the discussion, I just remembered he also ran 3:47 for #2 all time. If he medals this year, he won't be far from matching Scott's accomplishments in only his first year as a pro. Far from a given of course, but Scott was ranked #2 in the world twice, and Nuguse has now had it once, and they both ran #2 all time miles. I kinda doubt Nuguse is gonna come close to Scott's 130+ sub-4 miles, but I'm really excited to watch him now. He's the first American miler I've seen that is actually a gold medal threat, and he's won a DL and has been top 3 in the others he's run.
Yeah, Steve Scott was kind of a big deal. I don’t disagree with your putting Centro ahead of him based primarily on his Olympic gold, but the thing Scott really has over Centro is that Scott was routinely competing for the win on the Euro circuit from ‘79 to ‘86. He racked up a bunch of wins in meets that would later be called the Golden League and now Diamond League, in Oslo, Brussels, Lausanne, Stockholm, Zurich…That’s why he was ranked top-4 in the world by Track and Field News six times, while Centro was never ranked higher than 5th.
I don’t think there’s any way that Nuguse “matches Scott’s accomplishments in only his first year as a pro” unless he wins Worlds and breaks the world record.
Addendum: I don’t consider Nuguse as having earned a #2 world ranking yet, in the way that Scott/Ryun/Liquori earned top-2 rankings. There’s a big difference between T&F News end-of-year rankings and the automated World Athletics points system. Do you consider it reasonable to call Alicia Monson the #2 ranked 5k woman in the world?—it’s whack, but that’s where she sits in the WA rankings right now. That said, Nuguse is in a fine spot to earn that #2 ranking in the next ~7 weeks.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
The irony is if Yared forced himself to race at the Olympics the same posters who criticized him for not racing would have been very vocal about how bad he raced. So to see a post titled Yared ranked #2 a couple seasons later is nice.
The #1 spot is pending for the goose after a win at worlds.
Ok yeah I just looked at his 1983 results so I could say he wasn't that crazy on the circuit, but then I saw he ran 12 miles, won 11 of them, and the last 6 were all between 3:49-3:51. And he ran 7 1500s, and the only one he didn't win was WCs where he came 2nd in the final. That's actually crazy racing. Bro dropped a 3:53 mile on May 19th and a 3:49 on September 3rd. How the heck did he do that? Skimming through the other years, it looks like 1983 was his most dominant on the circuit, with 1982 being close, but he was still mixing it up for years. Also weird to see Oslo used to be a 1500 when now it's one of the only big miles.
I didn't mean to say Nuguse could match Scott's accomplishments in his first year as a pro, just that he's on pace to do it eventually. I could be wrong, so let's compare Nuguse this year to Scott's best year, 1983.
Looking closer at the results, a few things pop out. Even though Scott did all those races in 1983, he only raced Cram once, at WCs, and he lost. They both raced Brussels, but Cram won the 1500 and Scott dodged him and came 8th in the 3k. He wasn't dominant indoors (3 miles, lost 2). He also won several races early in the year in Australia with weak fields, so that 12 miles/6 1500s is a tad inflated. By my count, he ran 16 1500/miles with world class fields + 2 800s and a 3k.
So compared to Scott (up to July 27), Nuguse has raced Jingy twice, where Scott didn't race Cram (not saying he dodged, but not saying he didn't). Aside from the best guy in the world, one person has beaten them (not counting Scott's indoor losses or the 800 to be charitable), and Scott had run 8 races with high quality fields, where Nuguse has run 9.
Overall, I'd say I was more right than I thought. I'd put Nuguse's accomplishments this year above slightly what 1983 Scott had done up to this point in the season. To surpass 1983 Scott's whole season, WC gold would do it alone, or a WC silver + 2 high quality wins + a DL final win (or 2nd behind Jakob). Like I said earlier, I wouldn't say he's particularly likely to do that, but he has a better shot than anyone save Jakob. I agree with you on the #2 in the world thing though. I just assumed they were the same thing, but the end-of-year rankings are obviously way more impressive.
As for how close he is to matching Scott's whole career, I think Scott had 3 ARs (mile, indoor mile, indoor 2k), and Yared has 3 already (1500, indoor mile, indoor/overall 3k), so he's matched Scott there. Scott was #2 in the outdoor mile, Yared is #2 in the indoor mile, so they're matched there. They both made an Olympic team but didn't race it, I give the edge to Scott there since he had no choice. Scott was #1 in the US 10x, and top 10 in the world 11x, where Yared is on his first. Scott had the record for fastest game of speed golf, but Yared is really good at Mario Kart, I'd call it even there. Basically, I think a WR or a gold would do it, but aside from that he'd need several more years at the top.
Steve Scott reached # 2 in 1982 and 1983 with 7 top tens.
Americans getting top ten rankings since 1990: Joe Falcon (#3 in 1990); Jim Spivey #10 in 1991, #9 in 1992, and #5 in 1993; Steve Holman #5 in 1994, #4 in 1995, and #10 in 1997; Excluding Lagat who began his world class career as a Kenyan; Alan Webb #7 in 2005 and #6 in 2007; Leo Manzano (#6) and Andrew Wheating (#9) in 2010; Leo also had a #9 in 2012; Matt C # 8 in 2011, #5 in 2012, #8 in 2013, #10 in 2015, and #5 in 2016; Craig Engels (!) # 8 in 2019, and Cole Hocker # 10 in 2021.
Pretty sparse.
Have to say Steve Scott is # 1 American miler (excluding Lagat) based on his career
Jeez I've never looked into Steve Scott, but I put Centro at the #1 spot over Lagat so I looked at his wikipedia so I knew how to disagree with you. He was crazy though. 3:36 in 1977 and a 3:37 in 1991. Apparently he was gonna go for a sub-4 mile at age 40 and didn't because he got cancer. Actually nutty. He's also credited with creating speed golf.
He ran a 3:47 mile that was #2 all time, got a silver medal in 1983, and came 5th in 1988. Gotta say, this dude was so good, but wow he choked hard in some big races. Last in the 1987 final and next to last in the 1984 final. Wild that he was so good for so long, was consistent enough to run the most sub-4 miles ever, and even had championship success, but was inconsistent in the biggest races. Are there videos of his best races floating around? I'd love to see them.
I still think Centro is the #1 miler, but now I have a lot more respect for how good Scott was. My mind changed on Centro in the last couple weeks because I realized he has a WC silver and gold, on top of Oly gold, since I don't count Kiprop. That beats out Lagat's WC gold and bronze. Lagat had the AR, while Centro only had the #3 time, but I think the Olympic gold outweighs that by a bunch.
Scott was unlucky because apparently they only held WCs once every 4 years back then for some reason (why did WA decide that 4 wasn't enough, so they added more, but still leave 1/4 years without any championships???), and his first Olympics the US was boycotting (although it doesn't look like he was in his prime yet based off his SBs). Still, if you even things out and don't count Centro's first Olympics (4th lol), and only count his first 2 WCs, he's still got the same medal record.
3:47 for #2 all time is crazy, but it doesn't mean as much if you're not winning medals. Also! to bring Nuguse back into the discussion, I just remembered he also ran 3:47 for #2 all time. If he medals this year, he won't be far from matching Scott's accomplishments in only his first year as a pro. Far from a given of course, but Scott was ranked #2 in the world twice, and Nuguse has now had it once, and they both ran #2 all time miles. I kinda doubt Nuguse is gonna come close to Scott's 130+ sub-4 miles, but I'm really excited to watch him now. He's the first American miler I've seen that is actually a gold medal threat, and he's won a DL and has been top 3 in the others he's run.
Can't see anyone other than Jakob as a real goal medal threat this year.
I would put him at 90% chance of winning the 1500m vs. 10% for he rest of the world.
On the 5k, I would guess he is at 51% with the field at 49%.
Jeez I've never looked into Steve Scott, but I put Centro at the #1 spot over Lagat so I looked at his wikipedia so I knew how to disagree with you. He was crazy though. 3:36 in 1977 and a 3:37 in 1991. Apparently he was gonna go for a sub-4 mile at age 40 and didn't because he got cancer. Actually nutty. He's also credited with creating speed golf.
He ran a 3:47 mile that was #2 all time, got a silver medal in 1983, and came 5th in 1988. Gotta say, this dude was so good, but wow he choked hard in some big races. Last in the 1987 final and next to last in the 1984 final. Wild that he was so good for so long, was consistent enough to run the most sub-4 miles ever, and even had championship success, but was inconsistent in the biggest races. Are there videos of his best races floating around? I'd love to see them.
I still think Centro is the #1 miler, but now I have a lot more respect for how good Scott was. My mind changed on Centro in the last couple weeks because I realized he has a WC silver and gold, on top of Oly gold, since I don't count Kiprop. That beats out Lagat's WC gold and bronze. Lagat had the AR, while Centro only had the #3 time, but I think the Olympic gold outweighs that by a bunch.
Scott was unlucky because apparently they only held WCs once every 4 years back then for some reason (why did WA decide that 4 wasn't enough, so they added more, but still leave 1/4 years without any championships???), and his first Olympics the US was boycotting (although it doesn't look like he was in his prime yet based off his SBs). Still, if you even things out and don't count Centro's first Olympics (4th lol), and only count his first 2 WCs, he's still got the same medal record.
3:47 for #2 all time is crazy, but it doesn't mean as much if you're not winning medals. Also! to bring Nuguse back into the discussion, I just remembered he also ran 3:47 for #2 all time. If he medals this year, he won't be far from matching Scott's accomplishments in only his first year as a pro. Far from a given of course, but Scott was ranked #2 in the world twice, and Nuguse has now had it once, and they both ran #2 all time miles. I kinda doubt Nuguse is gonna come close to Scott's 130+ sub-4 miles, but I'm really excited to watch him now. He's the first American miler I've seen that is actually a gold medal threat, and he's won a DL and has been top 3 in the others he's run.
Yeah, Steve Scott was kind of a big deal. I don’t disagree with your putting Centro ahead of him based primarily on his Olympic gold, but the thing Scott really has over Centro is that Scott was routinely competing for the win on the Euro circuit from ‘79 to ‘86. He racked up a bunch of wins in meets that would later be called the Golden League and now Diamond League, in Oslo, Brussels, Lausanne, Stockholm, Zurich…That’s why he was ranked top-4 in the world by Track and Field News six times, while Centro was never ranked higher than 5th.
I don’t think there’s any way that Nuguse “matches Scott’s accomplishments in only his first year as a pro” unless he wins Worlds and breaks the world record.
Addendum: I don’t consider Nuguse as having earned a #2 world ranking yet, in the way that Scott/Ryun/Liquori earned top-2 rankings. There’s a big difference between T&F News end-of-year rankings and the automated World Athletics points system. Do you consider it reasonable to call Alicia Monson the #2 ranked 5k woman in the world?—it’s whack, but that’s where she sits in the WA rankings right now. That said, Nuguse is in a fine spot to earn that #2 ranking in the next ~7 weeks.
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