… (Somewhat alike Karsten Warholm who thinks he could be world class in the 800m despite every sign telling us he couldn’t run sub 2 in a million years)…
I'm pretty sure Warholm could run sub 2:00 for 800 m.
Man, some of you need to google “rhetorical question” (My: Am I an idiot?”) Because I’m not interested in your answer here -I know I’m an idiot sometimes, and sometimes not -very same with you I guess. My agenda was to discuss Jakob (the interesting person here, and not me), and I wanted to know what you guys can contribute with here…
I’m not interested in you agreeing or not with me - I’m interested in you agreeing or not and why! That’s because your arguments and info could reinforce my view or help me change it. In addition to the entertainment….
Let me put it this way. Suppose Runner A and Runner B are doing the exact same training, everything. If A is a 4:10 miler and B is a 4:30 miler, who do you suppose is going to win in a 2 mile, 5k, 10k race? I know who is.
… (Somewhat alike Karsten Warholm who thinks he could be world class in the 800m despite every sign telling us he couldn’t run sub 2 in a million years)…
This doesn't make sense...he is too fast to run fast?
Since when does a person's ability to run fast prevent them from being able to run a fast 10k? Or marathon? Do you think Ingebrigtsen isn't running enough miles to have the stamina for longer races? I suspect it would only take a few months for him to adjust his training to be ready for a world-class marathon if he chose to.
Well, the theory here is that if you are fast in the 100m you very likely will be slow in the 10000m (because of your amount of fast versus slow muscle fibres among a lot of other things)…
This doesn't make sense...he is too fast to run fast?
Since when does a person's ability to run fast prevent them from being able to run a fast 10k? Or marathon? Do you think Ingebrigtsen isn't running enough miles to have the stamina for longer races? I suspect it would only take a few months for him to adjust his training to be ready for a world-class marathon if he chose to.
Well, the theory here is that if you are fast in the 100m you very likely will be slow in the 10000m (because of your amount of fast versus slow muscle fibres among a lot of other things)…
It's a good thing then that he's not a 100m runner, isn't it? He's not even an 800 guy... Jakob is not a runner who's suffering from too much speed.
Karsten Warholm could run sub 2 800m every day of the week without any problem, to belive othervise is crazy
Ask Jakob Ingebrigtsen his view on the matter -Warholm 800m (I have heard an interview with Jakob in Norwegian). Jakob said something like this:” Warholm is a sprinter. He doesn’t even hold for 400m. I will beat him in every distance above that “ (Probably meaning 450/500/600/700/800m). I’m not sure, but my 2 cents is that Jakob would support my view on “no sub 2” for K. Warholm!
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
(Somewhat alike Karsten Warholm who thinks he could be world class in the 800m despite every sign telling us he couldn’t run sub 2 in a million years)…
Just to avoid confusion for those who are reading this and may be confused by the above sarcasm, Karsten Warholm could absolutely run a sub-2 800m. Right now. Without specialized training.
Despite the fact that some would see me as a Jakob fan boy I’ve got this kind of scheme approach in my head: Jakob Ingebrigtsen is too fast twitch to have any talent for the 10000m, half marathon and marathon (as well as worlds xc). And he is certainly too slow to have any talent for the 100/400 and 800meters…
Jakob himself has said that he’s got hopes for the 10k, half and full marathon (yeah even thinks he could run way faster in the 800m) but I think he doesn’t know enough about the sport or his own capacity… (Somewhat alike Karsten Warholm who thinks he could be world class in the 800m despite every sign telling us he couldn’t run sub 2 in a million years)…
Unfortunately I’ve got this simplistic scheme / form in my head: 1. Jakob has too poor 100m speed to run a fast 800m. 2. Jakob is too fast in the 800m to run a fast 10000m…
I would love to be proven wrong. -Imagine Jakob crushing the 10k, half and full!
Here are my dreams for Jakob: Being clearly subordinate/ underdog in a 10000m (compared to Kiplimo, Cheptegei, Kejelcha) he hangs on for dear life in a global championship and gets a medal because one of the favourite miscalculates his efforts… (The same in a flat worlds xc course)… And that he breaks Mo Farah’s pb in the half.. (All three times so spent afterwards that he cannot speak for three hours…!)
What do you think -am I an idiot?
How can you know so much about the sport, but understand so little about the sport?
Well, the theory here is that if you are fast in the 100m you very likely will be slow in the 10000m (because of your amount of fast versus slow muscle fibres among a lot of other things)…
It's a good thing then that he's not a 100m runner, isn't it? He's not even an 800 guy... Jakob is not a runner who's suffering from too much speed.
Everything is relatively -he has got more speed than most other 5000m runners f.ex. His better pb in the 1500m than Kiplimo’s is a significant probability marker for Kiplimo being better (than Ingebrigtsen) in the 10000m.
There is not much physiologic difference between the 5 and the 10k, and even with the HM
Hmmm, yeah probably. 5k-10k definitely faster than lactate threshold but slower than VV02max. HM for most is slower than lactate threshold, but i think for world class 1hr or less maybe it's slightly faster that LT? Renata?
Regardless, the training is very similar, he should eventually have Euro records from 1.5k-10k. Probably HM (59:13, One hit wonder Wanders). Abdi's 203.36 M record is a big stretch. Cram's 1 mile of 3:46:32 is still a tough one too, partly because the mile is not run so often.
It's a good thing then that he's not a 100m runner, isn't it? He's not even an 800 guy... Jakob is not a runner who's suffering from too much speed.
Everything is relatively -he has got more speed than most other 5000m runners f.ex. His better pb in the 1500m than Kiplimo’s is a significant probability marker for Kiplimo being better (than Ingebrigtsen) in the 10000m.
That's not how it works. That actually favors INGEBRIGTSEN.
Everything is relatively -he has got more speed than most other 5000m runners f.ex. His better pb in the 1500m than Kiplimo’s is a significant probability marker for Kiplimo being better (than Ingebrigtsen) in the 10000m.
That's not how it works. That actually favors INGEBRIGTSEN.
I had a hard time following what the OP's point was (other than that JImay not be a world-beater at long distances, which seems like a relatively logical assumption until proven otherwise). But I do think he's right on this, at least in theory.
Imagine you have two runners who both run a bunch of 1,500 and 5,000 races, with similar conditions, at the same point in their training, etc. etc. If one of them ends up running 3:30 and 13:00 and the other ends up running 3:35 and 13:00, then in the absence of other information you'd pick the 3:35 guy to win a 10,000 race. Or at least I would.
Now, in the specific case of Ingebrigtsen vs Kiplimo, we do have a whole bunch of other information in addition to their times: e.g. Kiplimo's WXC performances and (most notably) the fact that his 5,000 is actually much faster; Ingebrigtsen's exceptionally good record at major championships. But all else being equal, really fast times at one end of a runner's range often predict lesser results at the other end of the range.
Warholm would beat Jakob on everything from 600m and down without doubt. 700m would is uncertain and 750-800m is where Jakob wins for sure. In fact i would not be suprised if Warholm challenged johnny grays world record in the 600m one day.
That's not how it works. That actually favors INGEBRIGTSEN.
I had a hard time following what the OP's point was (other than that JImay not be a world-beater at long distances, which seems like a relatively logical assumption until proven otherwise). But I do think he's right on this, at least in theory.
Imagine you have two runners who both run a bunch of 1,500 and 5,000 races, with similar conditions, at the same point in their training, etc. etc. If one of them ends up running 3:30 and 13:00 and the other ends up running 3:35 and 13:00, then in the absence of other information you'd pick the 3:35 guy to win a 10,000 race. Or at least I would.
Now, in the specific case of Ingebrigtsen vs Kiplimo, we do have a whole bunch of other information in addition to their times: e.g. Kiplimo's WXC performances and (most notably) the fact that his 5,000 is actually much faster; Ingebrigtsen's exceptionally good record at major championships. But all else being equal, really fast times at one end of a runner's range often predict lesser results at the other end of the range.
Why on earth would a 3:30/13:00 guy lose a 10k to a 3:35/13:00 guy??
1. Jakob has too poor 100m speed to run a fast 800m. 2. Jakob is too fast in the 800m to run a fast 10000m…
You never really know until they try. Some people move up in distance and get more competitive. Others move up and their predicted times fall off. What I do know is it will be fun to watch if he tries.
To be at that level, most athletes require some sort of delusion. As much as it about the perfection of training, it’s about their mindset and ability to say “f*** you” to anybody like you, who thinks they know them better than they know themselves.
go back to Strava segment chasing and acting as a summer training workout hero, only to bonk and not have it on your race days because you put your energy everywhere else but yourself.
Why on earth would a 3:30/13:00 guy lose a 10k to a 3:35/13:00 guy??
A 3:30/13:00 guy is dropping off more quickly with distance than a 3:35/13:00 guy. The 3:30 guy is running 10% slower at 5k, while the 3:35 guy is running 8% slower. The 3:35 guy seems to have better endurance, so if this pattern holds it's not crazy to think that by 10k they might have 5 seconds or more on the 3:30 guy.
This doesn't make sense...he is too fast to run fast?
Since when does a person's ability to run fast prevent them from being able to run a fast 10k? Or marathon? Do you think Ingebrigtsen isn't running enough miles to have the stamina for longer races? I suspect it would only take a few months for him to adjust his training to be ready for a world-class marathon if he chose to.
Well, the theory here is that if you are fast in the 100m you very likely will be slow in the 10000m (because of your amount of fast versus slow muscle fibres among a lot of other things)…
Simply stated: You're wrong!
Why?, JI is exactly where he needs to be with regard to "speed". His 100m time is completely irrelevant. As I previously posted a week or so ago, he's got a long term plan which includes WR's at 3000, 5000, and 10,000 which ultimately will be his BEST events. He's close to maxing out at the 1500/Mile, not too bad having a 3:27=3:44 mile in your back pocket when moving up in distance. His 3:27 last week clearly showed he has another 1-2 seconds left in the tank.
Why on earth would a 3:30/13:00 guy lose a 10k to a 3:35/13:00 guy??
They're equal at 5,000 (and we're making the assumption that the time is an accurate reflection of their current capabilities). The 3:35 guy is doing with less "speed" (or anaerobic capacity or whatever you want to call it), so he has to make up for that deficiency with superior "endurance" (or, again, faster critical speed or whatever physiological terms you want to use). Once you move up to 10,000, where "speed" is even less relevant, the guy with better "endurance" will come out ahead (in an evenly paced race).