Jokic has been the BEST NBA player for the last 3 years!

blue 7 wrote:

Because of his unique skill set Jokic is a point center. His dribbling skills, while not elite, are good enough for him to bring the ball up the court and initiate the action once he crosses midcourt. The amount of options he has can really unsettle a defense. He can play the two man game with Murray, he can find open shooters for threes, he can hit a three himself, he can post up and then either do a jump hook, a finger roll, dish to the corner. He has elite vision and his understanding of space is first rate. The only thing he lacks is high end athleticism. But it just shows that if you possess great skills in other areas the lack of athleticism becomes less of a factor. Barring major injury he will have some more great years ahead. And for those who think he's boring just watch the 4th quarter in game five. Beyond the assists he was credited for he made several other top notch passes that his teammates were unable to convert. He is an absolute joy to watch.

Real Obvi wrote:

coach wrote:

Bam is not a very good offensive player, Jokic should have much better stats. Let's compare Embiid vs Jokic head to head:

Embiid' team is 5 and 2 vs Jokic.

Embiid 25.7 pts, 11.9 rebounds, 3.6 assusta,1.4 steals.

Jokic 21.9 points, 8.9 rebounds. 7.4 assists, 1.1steals.

Still I'd take Jokic over Embiid for his durability and how he elevates his teammates.

Head to head comparisons are pretty silly. If Embiid and the 76ers are ahead of Jokic and the Nuggets head to head that just means that Embiid and the 76ers are that much further behind against the rest of the league compared to Jokic and the Nuggets.

Games against everyone count the same. And frankly, as talented as Embiid is, to compare him to Jokic at this point is just plain ridiculous.

Take a look at (career) advanced stats in the playoffs - where you "really lace 'em up."

Win Shares per 48 minutes

Embiid: .134 (bordeline all-star level)

Jokic: .236 (4th highest of all time)

Value over replacement player per game played

Embiid: .0491 (borderline all-star level)

Jokic: .1176 (3rd highest of all time)

Box Plus/Minus

Embiid: 3.5 (borderline all star level)

Jokic: 10.4 (2nd highest of all time)

Sorry, but Embiid is simply not in the same galaxy as Jokic, even ignoring durability issues.

"blue 7 wrote:

Because of his unique skill set Jokic is a point center. His dribbling skills, while not elite, are good enough for him to bring the ball up the court and initiate the action once he crosses midcourt. The amount of options he has can really unsettle a defense. He can play the two man game with Murray, he can find open shooters for threes, he can hit a three himself, he can post up and then either do a jump hook, a finger roll, dish to the corner. He has elite vision and his understanding of space is first rate. The only thing he lacks is high end athleticism. But it just shows that if you possess great skills in other areas the lack of athleticism becomes less of a factor. Barring major injury he will have some more great years ahead. And for those who think he's boring just watch the 4th quarter in game five. Beyond the assists he was credited for he made several other top notch passes that his teammates were unable to convert. He is an absolute joy to watch.

Its obvious to all wrote:

"blue 7 wrote:

Because of his unique skill set Jokic is a point center. His dribbling skills, while not elite, are good enough for him to bring the ball up the court and initiate the action once he crosses midcourt. The amount of options he has can really unsettle a defense. He can play the two man game with Murray, he can find open shooters for threes, he can hit a three himself, he can post up and then either do a jump hook, a finger roll, dish to the corner. He has elite vision and his understanding of space is first rate. The only thing he lacks is high end athleticism. But it just shows that if you possess great skills in other areas the lack of athleticism becomes less of a factor. Barring major injury he will have some more great years ahead. And for those who think he's boring just watch the 4th quarter in game five. Beyond the assists he was credited for he made several other top notch passes that his teammates were unable to convert. He is an absolute joy to watch.

I think he is very athletic for a man who is 284 pounds. I don't see big men dribbling behind their back, through their legs and dribbling past opponents. Of course he won't have the speed or agility of a man 6'8" at 215 lbs.

Basketball Jones wrote:

blue 7 wrote:

I use athleticism in the narrow sense of having explosive quickness, tremendous jumping ability that results in monster dunks. He is not those things but does have excellent coordination so if we want to use athleticism in a broader sense I'll grant that he's athletic.

The other things he has going for him are:

1) He can actually hustle quite well for a guy who appears so big and lumbering. Compare him to the decidedly “more athletic” Anthony Davis, and Jokic is able to play more minutes while consistently forcing the fast paced transition game because he knows it leads to points, while Davis is slowly jogging half the time because he’s winded.

2) He’s extremely strong. He doesn’t look like a chiseled Adonis, but you can’t back down NBA centers in the paint so easily or get as many contested rebounds as he does without being very strong.

If his career ended today, I’d put him as the 8th greatest center in NBA history. Something like:

1. Kareem

2. Wilt

3. Shaq

4. Russell

5. Hakeem

6. Moses Malone

7. Robinson

8. Jokic

9. Ewing

10. Cowens

We’ll see how high he can climb over the rest of his career.

Lets Hoop wrote:

Its obvious to all wrote:

Of course he was amazing during the playoffs as expected by the knowledgeable fan.

For some reasons he has had a number of naysayers who try to pick apart his game. He put Denver on his shoulders and won the finals, but he has done that all season. Never has a big man been so multitalented and skillful at all the important skills (shooting, passing, assitists rebounding, positioning, dribbling and quarterbacking) . He raises the skill level of his entire team to a rare extent.

And he is a modest good guy who doesn't have to showboat but he is totally dominant.

LOL. I like how the only important skills you listed for defense are rebounding and positioning. Hysterical! Come on, Jokic is great, and he is a deserved champion and 2 time MVP. But don’t lie and say he has ALL the important skills when he obviously has some key defensive deficiencies that are particularly relevant for a center.

Basketball Jones wrote:

blue 7 wrote:

I use athleticism in the narrow sense of having explosive quickness, tremendous jumping ability that results in monster dunks. He is not those things but does have excellent coordination so if we want to use athleticism in a broader sense I'll grant that he's athletic.

The other things he has going for him are:

1) He can actually hustle quite well for a guy who appears so big and lumbering. Compare him to the decidedly “more athletic” Anthony Davis, and Jokic is able to play more minutes while consistently forcing the fast paced transition game because he knows it leads to points, while Davis is slowly jogging half the time because he’s winded.

2) He’s extremely strong. He doesn’t look like a chiseled Adonis, but you can’t back down NBA centers in the paint so easily or get as many contested rebounds as he does without being very strong.

If his career ended today, I’d put him as the 8th greatest center in NBA history. Something like:

1. Kareem

2. Wilt

3. Shaq

4. Russell

5. Hakeem

6. Moses Malone

7. Robinson

8. Jokic

9. Ewing

10. Cowens

We’ll see how high he can climb over the rest of his career.

coach wrote:

Basketball Jones wrote:

The other things he has going for him are:

1) He can actually hustle quite well for a guy who appears so big and lumbering. Compare him to the decidedly “more athletic” Anthony Davis, and Jokic is able to play more minutes while consistently forcing the fast paced transition game because he knows it leads to points, while Davis is slowly jogging half the time because he’s winded.

2) He’s extremely strong. He doesn’t look like a chiseled Adonis, but you can’t back down NBA centers in the paint so easily or get as many contested rebounds as he does without being very strong.

If his career ended today, I’d put him as the 8th greatest center in NBA history. Something like:

1. Kareem

2. Wilt

3. Shaq

4. Russell

5. Hakeem

6. Moses Malone

7. Robinson

8. Jokic

9. Ewing

10. Cowens

We’ll see how high he can climb over the rest of his career.

I have 6th. I can't figure how to place your top 4 as the era was so different. I think in a couple of more good years and moves ahead of Hakeem.

Regarding athleticism, Shaq and Wilt were big guys with more speed, strength, and power.