9:40 and 4:30 as a junior is not bad. A good coach will look at where you have been as well. If you are showing a massive improvement curve and don’t do crazy mileage you can easily make the case that by end of year senior year you’ll be a 9:teens guy and 4:20. That is plenty good enough for most schools outside of d1 powerhouses. Maybe not scholarship but getting a coach to help with admissions is more than realistic. Most programs are not going to tell a 4:20/9;teens guy to just go away either. So I think the board is too harsh to you.
I would much rather take a 4:30-9:40 guy who is showing massive improvement than a 4:15 guy who ran 4:25 as a freshman and 4:20 as a sophomore. There are a lot of kids who are faster but not improving.
Committing early can be helpful as well. My son went to an ivy without much different times. He applied early and the coach made a note to admissions that it would be treat to have him on the team. His trades were basically good enough to get in without that… but everyone’s is. So that extra nudge was enough.
The world has changed. D1 coaches won't respond to a kid with thise times today. Ivy coaches definitely won't help or respond. You are either familiar with things from 30 years ago or more likely making things up.
If you are looking to go to school for business, I recommend looking into Babson. Great school, excellent job placement after school. The team is much better now than when I was there.
Go on a bunch of the Ivy School's websites. I don't want to call out individuals... but if you go to Columbia's Roster, Brown's Roster... you will see guys there with HS Prs in the 4:20s and 9:20s. Some of them didn't run those times until their SENIOR year. Many on these rosters set PRs their Junior year and got worse their senior year. Do the research... times are times.
This board is too harsh. Just because you got denied, doesn't mean everyone will be. Maybe your grades weren't great. Maybe the coach didn't like you. Maybe your improvement curve was terrible. Who knows. But facts are facts. Look it up.
To the original poster... crush cross country. If you're among the best in your state and you have a story to tell... I wouldn't give up hope.
One of my children is running at an Ivy currently.and another in the ACC. We have one more headed to an Ivy next year. Our child in the ACC got a nice academic scholarship but the two Ivy kids are full price. We only earn $180K but socked a lot of money away. I wasn't happy to discover how much we have to pay, but that is sort of why we saved it. More than 1/2 of the students pay full price. My son ran 4:09 junior year and daughters ran 4:5x.
It's not all on the parents to pay for their adult children's college. You don't have to pay a dime, but it's nice if you do. You certainly don't have to pay the full amount. They can take out $60k in loans and be perfectly fine, especially if they're getting a good education that will lead to a solid paying job. They can pay off $60k in loans in a couple years after graduating if they spend their money wisely. It's not all on you parents.
One of my children is running at an Ivy currently.and another in the ACC. We have one more headed to an Ivy next year. Our child in the ACC got a nice academic scholarship but the two Ivy kids are full price. We only earn $180K but socked a lot of money away. I wasn't happy to discover how much we have to pay, but that is sort of why we saved it. More than 1/2 of the students pay full price. My son ran 4:09 junior year and daughters ran 4:5x.
It's not all on the parents to pay for their adult children's college. You don't have to pay a dime, but it's nice if you do. You certainly don't have to pay the full amount. They can take out $60k in loans and be perfectly fine, especially if they're getting a good education that will lead to a solid paying job. They can pay off $60k in loans in a couple years after graduating if they spend their money wisely. It's not all on you parents.
I’m not sure why the obsession with “Ivy,” unless the goal is investment banking or, maybe, law. OP, go to the best private or D3 school that has a good team culture and offers the most money. The goal is to graduate with the least amount of debt. There’s plenty of merit money out there for the right student. Our daughter, who has similar credentials to you, got a couple full tuition offers, one full ride, and a couple 80% off tuition. We knew she was getting no need-based aid. There is a school out there with a great name and a good team who will take you at the right price, but you just have to find it.
I think you'd be best at a junior college for your first two years. Get stronger, and knock out some prerequisite classes before transferring to a cheap state school.
4:30/9:40 with what sort of speed? any ideas what you can run for the 200/400? your speed is the best indicator of what sort of potential you have.
i would generally say you want to find a team where you are unlikely to be in the top-5 your freshman year, but have a legit chance of achieving that sophomore year.
It all comes out in the wash. If we don't pay for their education, they inherit more money someday. I am unclear why you used $60k other than an example? The cost has risen to $340K.
Your numbers seem way off. Our daughters contacted dozens of coaches and heard back from few. They were offered at most 10%. Out of approximately 50 schools, 40 no response, 5 walk on, 5 up to 10%. That's it. Had they been offered more, the Ivies wouldn't have been as attractive because the delta would have been much smaller.
Your numbers seem way off. Our daughters contacted dozens of coaches and heard back from few. They were offered at most 10%. Out of approximately 50 schools, 40 no response, 5 walk on, 5 up to 10%. That's it. Had they been offered more, the Ivies wouldn't have been as attractive because the delta would have been much smaller.
Ok, I see where you’re coming from. I’m talking purely academics. There are plenty of good merit scholarships and merit school competitions if you take your expectations down a bit. Washington and Lee is just one example, give 10% of incoming class a full ride. So schools like that, just a tier below, selective but maybe not most selective. I don’t know about running. Seems like there are some good combination academic/athletic scholarship options if a tier one university isn’t the be all, end all.
I hear you on the delta. We were too high earning to get any aid other than academic, and I just don’t personally think the trade off for Ivy is worth it when a kid can still get a brand, private university for, say, half off or the equivalent of an in state education.
Your numbers seem way off. Our daughters contacted dozens of coaches and heard back from few. They were offered at most 10%. Out of approximately 50 schools, 40 no response, 5 walk on, 5 up to 10%. That's it. Had they been offered more, the Ivies wouldn't have been as attractive because the delta would have been much smaller.
My second daughter hasn’t really heard back from anyone, so I can reinforce what you are saying. So that will be an in state, walk on situation.
My daughter is going to Indiana next year. She ran sub 5 junior year. she contacted dozens of coaches like others have said on some similar threads. She received almost no interest as in no responses. She followed up with may coaches via phone messages and emails and questionnaires but still nearly no responses. She had to physically show up at coaches' doors to get any to talk to her. She is receiving no scholarship.
Why are people so obnoxious about where others chose to spend their money? If there is a cohort of us who are fine paying for an Ivy league education than why should you care? I don't get the obnoxious comments about it. Clearly the poster knows how much it costs and it hasn't deterred him. He's not asking for financial advice.
Why not provide advice to the OP rather than scold another poster who is providing information? You are mistaken in thinking that an 18 year old has any idea about finances. Most 40 year olds can't manage money and have no grasp on how much tings cost or how to be frugal. The OP immediately came back statgin that Ivies have good financial aid. The is true if you are poor. But so many people hear about a $40B endowment and the neighbor kid who went for $10K that they don't bother to plug their numbers into the calculator. And it isn't really about how others spend their money because most Americans follow your advice and choose the college that they like rather than the one they can afford and then they all want student loans forgiven becase they say college is too expensive.
First, I am not in favor of student loan forgiveness. Second, I assume the OP has parents that have given him the green light to explore Ivies. How they chose to pay, borrow, etc. is not our concern. Third, this thread has been civil about this topic for the most part... but many others on Letsrun are not. The vilification of those choosing to spend 340g for an ivy league education is completely unwarranted. I am unclear why people want to bash those either a) fortunate enough to have wealthy enough parents to pay or b) are willing take out loans to attend. Fourth, as I'm sure you're aware... endowment money can't be used for tuition. Crazy. That's why these colleges are so expensive. The ones who can afford subsidize the ones who can not. Just wanted to point out. I don't want to get in an argument and apologize if it seemed like I was starting one. But the hatred on these boards to elite higher education is nauseating and, quite frankly, none of anyone's business. I think many of these posters who bash are big into capitalism and I assume personal freedom. Ironic that those same principles are what allowed a family to afford an elite private education in the first place. I would bet many railing against an the cost of an Ivy League education wouldn't be railing if the made 7 figures every year. They don't like it because they can't afford it. But make no mistake, their goal is to make enough where they could... and then they would.