Bayshore Marathon Short?

Or the course is measured and laid out properly but people don't stay to the correct side of the cones, as one poster mentioned

you have never been to northern michigan. gps not the best there.

SAXTON

That's not strictly speaking always true. Depending on the course, GPS can underestimate.

Didn't you run/win this one year? What did it say when you ran it?

Course is certified.
Runners run the course available to them.
The course is not short.
Only Two men OTC qualified.
please race the course and show that the course is short.
Gawd, this spewing of refuse is trite.
Remember to cheer these OTC qualifiers in Orlando.

How are you proposing to do that? Running the course and seeing what the GPS says? Oh wait…

No, I never won. I fell apart in 2019 despite being more than fit enough to get the job done. I digress. I just went back and looked and in 2017, I had 26.17. In 2019, I had 26.15. So, it seems it’s about the same as it’s always been.

FWIW - the 2017 run was a 9-minute PR at the time (2:39 down to 2:30) so that tracks with a short course/course that could be easily cut by running tangents. I will say though - I am the type who would absolutely follow course markings and cones if they were setup.

The 2019 run was garbage (2:27). I was easily in shape to run 6-8 mins quicker. I just mentally fell apart, so that doesn’t prove anything about the course.

The course is legit. Gps is wierd and not to be believed all the time. Great tool but not always accurate. How many times have you done a run with somone and finished and not had same distance? Probably more often than not. The course follows the road along the lake and has lots of gentle turns following the contours of the shore. Gps will sometimes connect straight line dots and not catch the total distance you are running. Essentially you are running a squiggly line and the gps doesn't follow that precisely be cause it doesn't re ORD every second. So when it dies ville t a data point it will just draw a straight line firm the last point. Running a single track trail in the woods with lots of tree cover will exasperate this even more. People in my strava feed were between 26.09 and 26.22. I've run the race previously and found it to be accurate. No mile markers off or wierd splits if you are just using the mile markers instead of your watch which I've done. Weather last 2 years has been just about perfect and the times reflect it. This is a great race. Getting out to the start of the half using the bussing they provide can be interesting but when we ran the half we had somone take us out there and drop us. The full starts and finishes in same spot.

Good thinking, Kip.

Exactly. I have an older Garmin and it cuts the distance short, slightly, in most races, to the point where I finally stopped second-guessing myself on well-known courses and just accepted the fact that my watch isn't perfect. Watches can, and do, under report distances, as other posters have said.

Garmins aren't reliable enough, maybe it's short but the 4 or 5 friend I know who ran it all have GPS measurements which average 26.22. A couple near 26.19 and a could at 26.28. I've seen some lower readings after searching but ultimately it's hard to trust the GPS reading of a coastal, winding, up north race like that.

Is there USATF officials on site to insure that the course is being run in the same fashion that it was measured?

Yesterday there were cones up the center of the road but runners on both sides of the cones and officials yelling “stay to the right” but ignored by the runners who ran the tangents.

I reached out to the race measurer for some clarification on the issue

my question: Hi Mike,
I’m wondering if you could offer clarification on the certification of the bayshore marethon that you measured. Is the course measured as an out and back with the runners able to run both out and back using the whole road or are the runners meant to stay on the right side of the road the entire course?

Mike: Great question.
The marathon course was indeed measured as an out and back using the FULL WIDTH of the road and shortest possible route. The EXCEPTION being that the runners must stay in the right lanes of M-37 and Bluff roads Approximately miles 5–21. As I understand, there are cones at the corners of M-37 and E. Shore Drive as well as M-37 and Bluff road to aid in keeping runners on the right side of those roads.
Kind regards,
Mike

I was not at the race, but it appears as if runners utilized both lanes for the entire race, and have in previous years resulting in most runners cutting the course this year and last year at least.

I like how he casually mentions that the "exception" is 16 miles long, lol

Helpful details though - seems like this is the issue based on your and Usatf certification's response

I’m not sure how that would explain Bohannon (above poster) also getting distances < 26.2 on his GPS back in 2017 and 2019 while indicating he’s unlikely to have cut the tangents

The leaders also have bikers guiding them for I believe most of the race at Bayshore, so if the leaders are getting GPS distances < 26.2 I doubt it’s a cutting tangents issue

Let’s say they only ran 26 miles instead of 26.2. At 2:16 marathon pace, you’re covering .2 miles in 75 to 80 seconds. First place still qualifies, second place just misses it. If it’s 26.1 instead of 26.2, both runners still qualify. What’s the big deal anyways? Both guys (and the one female who qualified) all ran the course as best as they could. It’s obvious you have a bone to pick as you’ll never make any effort to qualify yourself. You’ll just sit at home on your couch and nitpick race results from sub elite runners your whole life.

It was 43 at the start but closer to 65 at the finish. Conditions were very good but got warm the last 10K or so. I don't wear a GPS but was happy with my (non-competitive) time.