Explain Like I'm 5: Why should I make my 800 guy do lots of long runs?

Even if your supposed 1:52 guy CAN pull off 3x 1:24 600 (which I really doubt, without pacers and a psychotic mindset), the injury risk is sky-high compared to say, 8-10 x 300 at race pace. He would be, at the very least, CNS ruined for the rest of the week, not even considering the need for actual speed work to progress his 400.

Training is training, racing is racing. You are trying to jam one into the other (which might be because of your sprint backround, which has a higher component and tolerance of weekly race-like efforts.)

Learn the components of each event, the steps for achieving each, and develop and integrate them carefully, not in this sledgehammer method you are inclined to do. Longer runs, hills, weights, drills, strides, sprints, intervals, plyos, tempos all play a part, and each in it's season. The 400/800 is all about proper balance and regulation of effort.

First, what are you calling a "long run"? 5 miles, 10 miles?

Second, the reason is that the 800 has a big aerobic component to it. If he is running 2 minutes then it is around 60% aerobic (if slower it is more aerobic). So you need to optimize that system and longer runs do that by increasing the oxidative enzymes, increasing mitochondria, increasing capillary density, etc.

This is a good response and should be noted.

He is a 48 second 400 guy. Repeats at 56 second 400 pace don't make sense.

He is a 48 second 400 guy. Repeats at 56 second 400 pace don't make sense.

It all depends when in the year you're talking about. An 800 runner can develop aerobic base during XC (for example) and this will better prepare him to withstand the rigor in his track season workouts.

I don't see much need for long runs during peak phase. And yes, there is race-specific training to address the aerobic demands of the 800.

Ponder this: even sprinters are known to get busted for using EPO. Why are they taking it?

Something I read recently, or someone said it to me, I forget idk, is along the lines of:

"Most of 800 training is just training for future training. Only in the end do we really train to race."

To OP, take this idea and run with it. For a full training cycle you need to develop speed, develop aerobic strength, and keep a tiny bit of specificity in there so you don't totally forget what you're training for. When it's crunch time, all those slow easy runs, short hill sprints, and weights will translate to better race specific workouts, and ultimately faster times.

My 2cs is that you want to build aerobic capacity for the 30% of the race that's aerobic. Aerobic development takes time and you need to simmer the pot to flavour the stew, so you give his body enough time to adapt. If you want to do this consistently, then the slower paced runs are less of an injury risk than the sessions you outline and should be a more reliable way to increase his aerobic capacity than hammering out the specific paces. It's critical to keep the faster paced stuff in there imo, especially work in the 80-300m range.

Even one of the weightlifting GOATs got busted for EPO. A snatch takes like 1 second. A clean and jerk takes like, 5 seconds. But to handle the training volume day in, day out, you gotta have some aerobic strength.

olympics.nbcsports.com

Lyu Xiaojun, Olympic champion weightlifter, banned for EPO

OlympicTalk

Lyu Xiaojun, a two-time Olympic champion weightlifter from China, tested positive for the banned blood booster EPO.

Link:olympics.nbcsports.com/2022/12/23/lu-x...

Exactly! (my question was rhetorical)

With greater aerobic capacity, the athlete can spend more time doing reps.

800m is an odd distance. There have been elite 400m runners who were also elite 800m runners, like Alberto Juantorena

Alan

Lots of interesting responses since I last checked in. I appreciate them.

God, imagine being a young runner who doesn't know much and THIS is the coach you get...

I don't about doing long runs if he's a sprint based runner but 25 to 30 miles per week will at least develop some more endurance. He might be able to run 1:52 but can he do it with rounds? More aerobic strength will help him be able to run his fastest in finals because he'll be stronger.

The most concise rule of thumb I would give (I've only competed and coached the 800 for 51 years) is to train like a 1500-800 runner in April and a 200-400m runner in June (assuming late June is your goal race(s)). With this, most of your race-paced 800 volume will be in early-mid May; after that, rely mostly on races for that component.

I don't know what the level of competition is here, but you probably want your 48/1:52 runner on some sort of relay at your championship meet. If you've got a 4x800 and rounds in the 800, he might be running four races in two days. In American high school conference meets this athlete is probably running three races in one day. Aerobic development may not seem specific to the individual race, but it is essential to recovering between races.

The OP knows he/she is outside his/her area of expertise and cane here to get advice and gain knowledge. Would the runner be better off with an experienced middle distance coach? Probably but why dump on the OP? He/she is doing what a coach should do when outside their comfort zone, asking questions and trying to get better.

Good for you OP. Ignore the snarky answers and good luck with your runner.

This is Johnny. Johnny runs a long way every Saturday. This makes Johnny's lungs big and strong. Now, when Johnny runs around the track two times at the big race, Johnny's big lungs help him run fast.

Good luck coach. Plenty of decent threads on forum to discuss 800m training. Every athlete is different.

My only advice with your athlete is you don't need nearly as much 800m pace work as you think particularly if 48 second 400m guy.