I (and others) said in the other thread that it looked like Miami knocked it. Didn't the announcer say something about that too?
Sprinters have never been good with passing. They always run into each other while passing for no reason. I've never understood it but every 4x4 they rub against each other instead of passing cleanly. It's weird to me.
This is the dumbest comment about passing......as if distance runners don't collide and bump each other all the time.
Nonsense. The video clearly shows the Miami runner on the backswing of her left forearm knocking it out of the Duke anchor's right hand (where it should not have been in tight quarters).
The opposing relay runner did knock it out of her hand on her backswing, so she is correct. However, she had moved into the opponent's territory near lane 2 and her own Steiner like exaggerated outward arm swings caused the baton to be in place to be knocked away, so I think that they were dq'd for good reason.
Quit lying. The replays show that Duke hit the Miami girl's arm on the downswing with the stick, period, end of story.
And don't bring Abby into this. She has an outswing but knows how to hold a baton properly. Any video of her in relays shows this.
To highlight this idiocy of "sword-carrying" the baton even further, check out Texas A&M and their same mistake at SEC's an hour later.
I was watching the ACC live and the moment I saw the McGinnis girl swinging that stick around like she was swatting a bug, I saw trouble. Sure enough....
It's just this kind of incivility that makes this message board so toxic.
I've looked at this video a # of times and it is very clear that the Duke anchor pulls back the baton in her right hand at 24:32 and 24:44 of the video, the Miami anchor swings back her left hand and accidentally knocks the baton out of her hand on that Miami backswing. It misses her hip. The Miami athlete did not do anything wrong because she had moved out to lane two and the Duke anchor had gotten into her space by moving out almost to lane two, but it is indubitable that the Miami athlete knocked it out of the Duke athlete's hand on that backswing. Had the opposite have been the case (the Miami runner cut in on the Duke runner in lane one and not given her proper space for the baton), it would have been worthy of a Miami dq and a Duke win. As it was, Duke's dq and Miami's win were just.
Interestingly, the winning anchor in the previous 4x4 heat held her baton in her left hand. See around 16-17 minutes.
I agree with Awsi it's like she was trying to throw it all away, seemingly carrying it between her thumb and forefinger...in fact there was no contact, she just let go of it! And here we all always thought the Olympic men's 4x100 teams were the worst!
I've looked at this video a # of times and it is very clear that the Duke anchor pulls back the baton in her right hand at 24:32 and 24:44 of the video, the Miami anchor swings back her left hand and accidentally knocks the baton out of her hand on that Miami backswing.
The Duke runner swung the baton forward into the Miami runners arm. It's as plain as day.
Bottom line the runner has to hold on to the baton which requires looking around and being aware of nearby runners. The Duke runner thought she had it won and made the mistake of relaxing her grip.
I don't think either runner is to blame...I can't see either one doing anything wrong or intentional.
My solution is called a common sense rule. Track and Field needs a common sense rule to supersede all other rules. In this case, the fact that the runner crossed the finish line without the baton should be meaningless. This is a no foul incident (no different than advancing someone to the finals in a heat where someone got bumped). There is nothing either runner did to impede the other or cheat. The results of the race are in no way affected by the dropped baton.
I saw an incident at a National Championship once where in the 4x800 or DMR a runner had the baton knocked out of their hand by a pole vault cross bar which had fallen on the runner's arm. In my opinion, the runner should have just kept running - and when the got to the next exchange zone touched hands with the next runners vs having to stop running midrace to go back and retrieve the baton (costing them huge amounts of time - for a no fault infraction).
Another example of where I would apply the common sense rule. I have seen a runner get DQ'ed for impeding where they were drifting out to block the runner about to pass them as they approaches the finish line. First, yes - this is an infraction, but the results should not be a DQ. But an advancement of the impeded runner ahead of the runner who drifted. A DQ essentially nullifies their entire race - as if to say they did not beat the rest of the field (which they clearly did). This would be like DQ'ing a basketball player and taking away all the points they scored in a game for a foul. BB doesn't do this because that kind of penalty does not fit the infraction. I would argue that these types of DQ's have the same issue: they over penalize the runner - or even, in this case, penalize the runner for an infraction that they did not cause, and it in no way should affect the final results of the race.
The opposing relay runner did knock it out of her hand on her backswing, so she is correct. However, she had moved into the opponent's territory near lane 2 and her own Steiner like exaggerated outward arm swings caused the baton to be in place to be knocked away, so I think that they were dq'd for good reason.
Quit lying. The replays show that Duke hit the Miami girl's arm on the downswing with the stick, period, end of story.
And don't bring Abby into this. She has an outswing but knows how to hold a baton properly. Any video of her in relays shows this.
To highlight this idiocy of "sword-carrying" the baton even further, check out Texas A&M and their same mistake at SEC's an hour later.
I was watching the ACC live and the moment I saw the McGinnis girl swinging that stick around like she was swatting a bug, I saw trouble. Sure enough....
THIS.
The Duke anchor literally HITS the Miami anchor with the baton on her backswing, and then drops it (because she was barely holding it).
To say it was "knocked out of her hand" is false and deflecting responsibility.
The Miami athlete did not do anything wrong because she had moved out to lane two and the Duke anchor had gotten into her space by moving out almost to lane two, but it is indubitable that the Miami athlete knocked it out of the Duke athlete's hand on that backswing. Had the opposite have been the case (the Miami runner cut in on the Duke runner in lane one and not given her proper space for the baton), it would have been worthy of a Miami dq and a Duke win. As it was, Duke's dq and Miami's win were just.
That's exactly it. When there is contact (within a normal running stride, as opposed to a deliberate shove, of course), we need to look at WHO IS WHERE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.
Duke barged out to lane 2, running over the line, caused contact with a passing runner in lane 2 (where she should be plus some), and then the Duke coach is saying DUKE was knocked??
It was 100% Duke's fault, given all the variables at hand including merely needing to finish the race given Virginia Tech's lousy time in a prior heat.
I'm actually impressed that the assistant coach made a positive Instagram post. We had heard nothing except the Duke coaches were ranting at meet officials and everyone else. Those girls live on Instagram. They savor fluff like that. I didn't look at the names but I don't doubt that everybody on the team was liking it and commenting, well with the exception of Frias who undoubtedly already knew she was leaving.
Yes, the Duke party line is Miami knocked it out. There are local party lines all over the place, depending on bias. For example, if you check sports media from Spain in the aftermath of Istanbul all they were talking about is that the athletics world had totally disgraced itself by celebrating the men's 60 hurdles victory instead of everyone in that race immediately rushing back to Llopis.
This is what astonished me...the SEC relays were far worse. Technique and everything else. I didn't watch them until 2 days later. Is anybody going to make it to the finish line? There were fewer calamities in that Depths of Hell relay than 2023 SEC relays. From memory the most incompetent of all was the Texas A&M runner who lost the baton. Exponentially worse than Duke. She was swinging it around like her life expectancy depended on losing the baton.
The Miami runner did not change her arm swing at all, she ran normally with no deviation. She was zero percent at fault, this was 100 percent the fault of the bizarre arm swing of the Duke runner.
I notice that Duke is really pushing the "we are family" angle on its track and cross country Instagram stories, probably in defensive mode after the Frias transfer. They've had multiple pictures of the distance medley relay team together in Albuquerque, including one literally titled, "nothing like a fam dinner after a long travel day."
Then the following Instagram story shows all 5 of them with the caption, "Also for those who don't know this is our DMR relay team..."
That photo obviously doesn't include Frias and is probably intended to preempt any surprise that Frias isn't there. It will be interesting to see if the commentators say anything about it.
"Sport is heartbreaking sometimes (2 points away from an ACC title with a baton knocked out of a hand by another team)"
-- Assistant coach, WHO PREPARED THE RELAY TEAM (see photo #3), blaming external factors rather than taking ownership of the issue: her runner carried the baton poorly, HIT another runner with the baton, and dropped it just a couple of strides away from an important win.
I literally can't even with these millennials.
Those darn biological males... Darn them to heck, I say!
Yes, Duke dropped the baton. It was not Miami's fault.
Yes. It was bad luck. Hard to coach for that.
BUT, Duke can still pick up the baton and cross the line. If she doe so in less than 7 seconds, Duke scores 3 points and wins the title. This is the REAL coaching moment.
Yes, Duke dropped the baton. It was not Miami's fault.
Yes. It was bad luck. Hard to coach for that.
BUT, Duke can still pick up the baton and cross the line. If she doe so in less than 7 seconds, Duke scores 3 points and wins the title. This is the REAL coaching moment.
Bad luck for sure. But, once she crossed the line she cant go back to get the baton. There was no way she could have stopped - she was 1 meter from the finish line. Once you finish without the baton, you are DQed.
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