He was 4th at the world championships…not an also ran. What’s more impressive is he only ran around 4min for the 1500m out of highschool and I believe maybe 8:40s for 3000m in highschool doing decent mileage (I’m not 100% on this just going off memory). With a very avg vo2 max. just goes to show consistent high mileage can build quite the engine and lead to massive improvements over time
For marathon, it works for some. I think that is the best way to put it. Not many people can pull off very high mileage training. Even for elites. For Levin, it seems to suit him well. He was doing that before NOP.
It obviously works for Cam, but most guys are eventually going to break doing 150+. Especially if done year round. Seems like doing it in marathon buildup might make sense, but then lower it and periodize to run some fast track times.
Cam certainly probably has amazing running economy. Imagine if he could get his 10,000 down to 27:00.
It obviously works for Cam, but most guys are eventually going to break doing 150+. Especially if done year round. Seems like doing it in marathon buildup might make sense, but then lower it and periodize to run some fast track times.
Cam certainly probably has amazing running economy. Imagine if he could get his 10,000 down to 27:00.
Well, my bad. I see that’s he’s already run 27:07. Dude probably could’ve broken 27. Amazing range, 1:49 800 all the way to 2:05 marathon. Crazy.
It obviously works for Cam, but most guys are eventually going to break doing 150+. Especially if done year round. Seems like doing it in marathon buildup might make sense, but then lower it and periodize to run some fast track times.
Cam certainly probably has amazing running economy. Imagine if he could get his 10,000 down to 27:00.
Well, my bad. I see that’s he’s already run 27:07. Dude probably could’ve broken 27. Amazing range, 1:49 800 all the way to 2:05 marathon. Crazy.
27 flat and 2:05 are different. change your username
Question is why don’t pros try to build towards it? Many sub elites hit 120mpw while working part/full time, not sure it’s good enough for a pro marathoner unless their body can’t handle it.
Easy answer. A lot of marathoners have run 2:01- 2:05 on less mileage and they prove there isn't a need of extrem mileage like this.If you remember what e.g Canova has told here you can only build your aerobic house to a given individual level, then it's more a question of improving the lactate threshold and long speed ability.🧙♂️🇸🇪
So are all pro marathoners at their aerobic peak? I don’t buy it. All I see is the vast majority of pros in the US, UK, Aus etc. running 2:08-2:10 seem to be maxing out at 120mpw and don’t even attempt to be competitive against the Kenyans and Ethiopians. Seidel and Levins seem to be the outliers and have been competitive at championship races. Do you hear of pros saying I’m going to build towards 160mpw in my Paris 2024/LA 2028 marathon block?
Easy answer. A lot of marathoners have run 2:01- 2:05 on less mileage and they prove there isn't a need of extrem mileage like this.If you remember what e.g Canova has told here you can only build your aerobic house to a given individual level, then it's more a question of improving the lactate threshold and long speed ability.🧙♂️🇸🇪
So are all pro marathoners at their aerobic peak? I don’t buy it. All I see is the vast majority of pros in the US, UK, Aus etc. running 2:08-2:10 seem to be maxing out at 120mpw and don’t even attempt to be competitive against the Kenyans and Ethiopians. Seidel and Levins seem to be the outliers and have been competitive at championship races. Do you hear of pros saying I’m going to build towards 160mpw in my Paris 2024/LA 2028 marathon block?
No, you won't hear pros saying I'm going to build towards 160 mpw , because they won't jeopardyze the risk of overdoing / injuries/ breakdown when they know 120 mpw or less is enough to run 2:01- 2:05. Another thing is that some makes it look like Cam is average talented. You don't run a 1:49 at 800m being average talented. The guy could have run the same 2:05 on 120 mpw or less. But I must admit it's amazing his body can take that much mileage inclusive the faster workouts without injuries/ breakdown. In that way he maybe could be called an outlier. 🧙♂️🇸🇪
When (if) USA guys like Kincaid, Fisher and so on step up to the Ton I guess USA will have some new 2:01- 2:05 guys. If I coach they definitely will.....lol 😉
No, you won't hear pros saying I'm going to build towards 160 mpw , because they won't jeopardyze the risk of overdoing / injuries/ breakdown when they know 120 mpw or less is enough to run 2:01- 2:05. Another thing is that some makes it look like Cam is average talented. You don't run a 1:49 at 800m being average talented. The guy could have run the same 2:05 on 120 mpw or less. But I must admit it's amazing his body can take that much mileage inclusive the faster workouts without injuries/ breakdown. In that way he maybe could be called an outlier. 🧙♂️🇸🇪
Exactly. Another way to look at this is like this:
Assume he ran 20 weeks as prep.
20 weeks X 170 miles = 3400 miles.
3400 miles / 2hr 5min = 27.2 miles for each minute
If he had run the same with 120 miles a week, this would be
20 weeks X 120 miles = 2400 miles
2400 miles / 2hr 5min = 19.2 miles for each minute
19.2 / 27.2 = 70%.
Meaning he coulda achieved the same with 70% of the effort.
In the meat industry we call it "law of diminishing returns". You can only feed the pig so much to fatten it up but beyond a certain point, you don't get extra ham.
Of course I know that! .....I'm the Magic Wizard ! 🧙♂️😀
JS, you seem very confident. And yet your only elite runner (Sammy Nyokaye) has had his career on the skids ever since you began coaching him? Why is that?
Question is why don’t pros try to build towards it? Many sub elites hit 120mpw while working part/full time, not sure it’s good enough for a pro marathoner unless their body can’t handle it.
Plenty try. Most break down. Some get away with short periods of higher mileage but few can grind out 150mpw on a regular basis.
The thing is few people are close to him talent wise. How many pros ran 27:07 in old shoes (or heck new)? The US has a bunch of 28:00 guys. It isn't a shock they are 5mins slower ...
Question is why don’t pros try to build towards it? Many sub elites hit 120mpw while working part/full time, not sure it’s good enough for a pro marathoner unless their body can’t handle it.
Plenty try. Most break down. Some get away with short periods of higher mileage but few can grind out 150mpw on a regular basis.
The thing is few people are close to him talent wise. How many pros ran 27:07 in old shoes (or heck new)? The US has a bunch of 28:00 guys. It isn't a shock they are 5mins slower ...
The Wizard™ may be wrong on a lot of things in the past but he's made some decent points in this thread, especially regarding volume.
This post was edited 41 seconds after it was posted.
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Edited for clarification and detail.
Matt Fox cannot break 2:20 in the Mara - off what is pretty pathetic mileage TBH.
Can you imagine he got on the Levins high mileage train, dropped a few kg and BAM, waaaaaaay under 2.20, maybe towards 2:10?
That would be hilarious and mentally destroy a lot of haters.
Unfortunately though Matt will never go down this route as he is convinced he doesn’t respond to high mileage (which is bollocks-he just doesn’t allow enough recovery days in between hard workouts so it appears the mileage doesn’t work but it the stacking of intensity that fries him). A day 10 training cycle rather than 7 is a far better option for most people…..
Of course I know that! .....I'm the Magic Wizard ! 🧙♂️😀
JS, you seem very confident. And yet your only elite runner (Sammy Nyokaye) has had his career on the skids ever since you began coaching him? Why is that?
Hi, not true. 1) My best coached runner is the Kenyan Josephat Kipchirchir Too. He placed second in weekends Fresh 15 k with 43:58 ( 3 sec behind winner and under old course record) 2) You don't know all the troubles have been for Sammy. Even that he won Mullys and almost 5000 $ plus did a couple of nice pacemaking. Now he is fighting back after a nasty motorbike accident. Training back goes fine. 🧙♂️🇸🇪
Matt Fox cannot break 2:20 in the Mara - off what is pretty pathetic mileage TBH.
Can you imagine he got on the Levins high mileage train, dropped a few kg and BAM, waaaaaaay under 2.20, maybe towards 2:10?
That would be hilarious and mentally destroy a lot of haters.
Unfortunately though Matt will never go down this route as he is convinced he doesn’t respond to high mileage (which is bollocks-he just doesn’t allow enough recovery days in between hard workouts so it appears the mileage doesn’t work but it the stacking of intensity that fries him). A day 10 training cycle rather than 7 is a far better option for most people…..
And Rudisha could have run 1:58 in the marathon if he just run 120 MPW and dropped a few Kg.
So are all pro marathoners at their aerobic peak? I don’t buy it. All I see is the vast majority of pros in the US, UK, Aus etc. running 2:08-2:10 seem to be maxing out at 120mpw and don’t even attempt to be competitive against the Kenyans and Ethiopians. Seidel and Levins seem to be the outliers and have been competitive at championship races. Do you hear of pros saying I’m going to build towards 160mpw in my Paris 2024/LA 2028 marathon block?
No, you won't hear pros saying I'm going to build towards 160 mpw , because they won't jeopardyze the risk of overdoing / injuries/ breakdown when they know 120 mpw or less is enough to run 2:01- 2:05. Another thing is that some makes it look like Cam is average talented. You don't run a 1:49 at 800m being average talented. The guy could have run the same 2:05 on 120 mpw or less. But I must admit it's amazing his body can take that much mileage inclusive the faster workouts without injuries/ breakdown. In that way he maybe could be called an outlier. 🧙♂️🇸🇪
There are different forms of talent. There's being fast and having a good engine untrained. Then there is the factor of ability to adapt to training and absorb training. The ability to withstand lots of training and adapt to it effectively is every bit as much of a genetic talent as being fast.
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