My view on Australian athletes and PEDs

Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?

I think E Africans have a great talent for distance running. Natural talent, genetics call it what you will, but its beyond coincidence that there are far more top level (elite) runners from those small countries than anywhere else. You're naive to think otherwise.

Having said that, there are also drug cheats among them.

What seems to always be overlooked in these discussions is the completely different outlooks and approaches in African vs US European runners. A top level runner here can make a living at it and even if he/she quits has something to kee themselves financially viable.

In Africa its very much dog eat dog and most of those guys are barely making it. The incentive to cheat is far greater and the risks seem almost worth it. They have to win to survive. Sponsorships are rare and dont pay squat.

Does this mean most of them are cheating? I dont think so.

And in terms of science and medicine, I could argue that the latest drugs and the best docs are right here or in Europe, so why would anyone here get caught?

Africans get busted because they are very "low tech" when it comes to drugs and dosages.

This is all one sided though isn't it, what you have written here. It's more doping philosophy rhetoric. You're all blinded by this mythology of superhuman metabolism.

IMO, a lot of truth to this.

8 of the fastest 13 East African born 800m runners of 2018/2019 have been suspended for anti-doping offences, and two of the remaining five are training partners with a suspended athlete. You would expect at least 1 or 2 of those five to be suspended in the future. WADA only opened its lab in Nairobi a couple of years ago, and Kenya is being forced to spend more money improving its testing, so the busts will likely increase significantly even on what they have been.

Over half the Kenyan male track team at the 2017 world championships between 100m and 5000m have been suspended for anti-doping offences.

The 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018 World U20 800m champions (all East Africans) have all been suspended for anti-doping offences. The current U20 800m champion is Emmanuel Wanyonyi, who has run 1:43 at 16 years of age.

If this was any other country or geographic region, they would have been banned from the sport years ago, and nobody here would be constantly expousing the fetish that they have some kind of genetic advantage. Nobody here claims that women from East Germany born in the 1950's had special genetic adaptations for the sprints and 800m. Nobody claims that Russian females have special adaptations for race walking. Nobody says that in one small region of China where Ma operated, the women had a special genetic adapation for distance running that blew East Africans away.

There is no need to explain East African domination by genes when they are getting busted every other day, when they couldn't break 1:43.5, 3:32.5, 13:06 and 2:09 before EPO came on the scene (and their 'domination' declines by the week).

In your dreams kid

hahah, look he doesn't know how markets work. Pretty common among the 1000cc brain crowd

Being Australian, I would like to think that 'Aussies don't dope'. Of course I don't think that is true in reality. There are some groups and individuals that are more obvious than others. As with most countries, most though would be exploring the 'grey side'.

Love how the piece is written like Bol is the first Aussie to dope. Australian sports have been dirty at least since the 90s.

800m

1:42.28 in 84, two other athletes 4th and 6th at the Olympics + Gold in 87 and 88, four athletes in all-time top 10 at end 91

1500m

3:32.57 in 89, Gold in 88

3000m

two athletes in all-time top 6 at end 91

5000m

Gold in 88, two athletes in all-time top 6 at end 91

10000m

two athletes in all-time top 3 at end 91

3000m steeple

Gold in 84, Gold and Silver in 88

top five athletes at end 91

Marathon

Gold in 87, Silver in 88

This is a present for you Coevett, you will enjoy it (look for the president of the organization who has published this nice article):

worldathletics.org

50 years of the World Cross: the rise of Africa | News | Bathurst 23 | World Athletics Cross Country Championships

A look back at the second decade of World Cross Country action

Open link

Ah, I see, he is talking about all East Africa, my numbers were just for Kenya.

So add the two fastest in the Marathon all-time at end 91, a 1500m Gold in 87...

Note, Ethiopia boycotted the 84 and 88 Games.

Yes, a prominent sprint coach and an unlinked athlete manager are very fishy. It's obvious their athletes should be target tested.

There's been a few female Aussie marathoners go down, now Bol.

Stop the cheating, your actions also take down your innocent/clean coaches, training partners, competitors and country's reputation.

Interesting with following link that stresses that just 1% advantage from testosterone is too much. 1% in the 100m is still a meter.

independent.co.uk

Eilish McColgan: One per cent advantage for trans women athletes ‘too much’

World Athletics is currently consulting member federations over its transgender policy

Open link

ok, that is one interpretation, although i did state I knew many who were cheating from 1980s and beyond.

If Bol's B sampel is -ve, then fine. But if it is +ve, it confirmation that he is a cheat and therefore he needs to be banned.

And if a cheater is banned, it will be a good day for clean sport. Nothing less.

I think Coevett is pointing out the fact that there are good runners from many regions of the world (Japan's marathoners or GB's 1500m runners come to mind) and that we can't give every crazy-fast time out of Kenya our full faith just because the runner "looks like a runner" in the style of Geb or Kipchoge. We aren't that naive anymore.

That said, Coevett is wrong to say there is no such thing as a natural born runner.

A natural born runner is anyone who has a lot of these seven traits (from the thread on "Explain Talent to Me"):

1 - hematological values (high levels of hematocrit near or above 50; but not too high)
2 - body type (correct weight, proportions, and biomechanics for running)
3 - lean body mass (naturally light and strong; so you don't have to starve yourself to be lean; some people just are always leaner than others)
4 - muscle fibers (fast AND slow twitch; quick repair to allow more hard workouts)
5 - lung health and volume (to increase VO2 max and Oxygen uptake)
6 - tendon and joint durability (to avoid injury)
7 - endocrine and brain chemistry (resulting in grit; to endure boring, difficult, and unrewarding behavior; otherwise you would burn out and give up)

Can population group X have more of these traits than population group Y? Yes, of course. In fact, the odds of these traits being spread perfectly evenly around the world are impossibly small. "Natural talent" is not a myth.

Yes, he will be banned if B sample confirms A sample, which is very likely.

… probably because they are genetically East African and culturally Australian/ British?

Your claim really only adds up if the athlete regularly returns to east Africa for “training purposes” - which was the case for Farah.

Your argument (if you can call it that) seems to be:

"Back in the 80s, I heard of a couple of Australian athletes taking drugs, therefore, there is a culture of PED use in Australia."

This is nonsense.

What was so upsetting about the Peter Bol positive was that no other high profile Australian distance runner had ever been caught doping. (If I'm wrong, correct me).

His positive result, and his alone, tarnishes the entire legacy of Australian distance running.

If his B sample is negative, and he proves his innocence, then this is the greatest travesty in the history of Aussie athletics (and I hope some people get the sh*t sued out of them).

But if not, I hope that no event organiser in Australia will ever let him compete again.

A 4 year ban simply won't be enough of a punishment for the damage he has done to the reputation of Australian athletes.