Me too, but I fear will have to wait a long time. It’s very hard from a logical standpoint to tell young people that they can be any gender they want, and everyone else must go along, except on the field of play.
A lot of people on this board, and I’m sure elsewhere, would like to strike a grand bargain with the transgender movement. They want to affirm that gender isn’t entirely social construct, and can be changed for any reason, and at any time. But they want those people to stay in their biological sexual classification for athletic contests. It’s inconsistent and it isn’t going to work.
The only solution is to go back to the root of the problem, and affirm that gender and sex are the same thing. Affirm what humankind has understood for thousands of years, that men and women are separate and that human kind is permanently binary.
I know many trans people. This is simply not how it works. Literally no one is going around “changing their gender for any reason and at any time.” Some of you would really benefit from getting out of your bubble now and then.
Have you ever met a narcissist or psychopath? I have. Postmodern gender theories are a dream-come-true for them. Many women have encountered nasty, spiteful males in women's clothing who use gender identity ideology as a cover for their misogyny. It's the worst kind of gaslighting.
The fact that you know transpeople who are just trying to live their lives (spoiler alert: many of us know people like this) does not preclude bad faith actors from wielding a subjectivist ideology to abuse people and consolidate power.
Aside from all of that, trans people with good intentions should not be given special privileges in sport. Fairness matters.
There should only be two categories in sport’s competition, biological male and biological female. Those not in these two categories should be allowed to compete in a special freak category, although these competitions should only be held every thirteen years on an island off the coast of Greenland.
So if your kid is born a hermaphrodite you just gonna call them a freak? Maybe you shouldn't have sex just in case!
There has never been a documented case of hermaprhoditism in human beings. Trans ideology today is not about recognizing human diversity, whether we're referring to the range of physical sexual development or male and female-typical interests observed naturally in human beings. It's a political maneuver and power move. For some, it may be about personal power. For others, it's a path to transhumanism--the morphing of humans and machines. The vast majority of people who support these ideas are sucked in by deeply damaged and sometimes psychopathic people cloaking themselves in the veneer of victimhood while exploiting and abusing those around them. We're living in a moment where authoritrianism is enacted through shame and appeals to be more empathic/compassionate rather than through the bald power displays of so-called toxic masculinity. If you don't agree, well, "Shame on you! Take a time out! Your so-called right to free speech is a threat to the very EXISTENCE of vulnerable people."
I cannot wait for this whole ridiculous movement to eat itself.
Me too, but I fear will have to wait a long time. It’s very hard from a logical standpoint to tell young people that they can be any gender they want, and everyone else must go along, except on the field of play.
A lot of people on this board, and I’m sure elsewhere, would like to strike a grand bargain with the transgender movement. They want to affirm that gender isn’t entirely social construct, and can be changed for any reason, and at any time. But they want those people to stay in their biological sexual classification for athletic contests. It’s inconsistent and it isn’t going to work.
The only solution is to go back to the root of the problem, and affirm that gender and sex are the same thing. Affirm what humankind has understood for thousands of years, that men and women are separate and that human kind is permanently binary.
This post encapsulates so much of the common misunderstanding about gender dysphoria that everyone should read it then go pick up a medical textbook or read the medical literature and learn about the terms “gender”, “sex”, and gender dysphoria. We can’t have a conversation about these topics without some understanding of what we are talking about. The information is out there and it is NOT on social media. An assertion of your opinion may not reflect reality no matter how strongly you feel.
There should only be two categories in sport’s competition, biological male and biological female. Those not in these two categories should be allowed to compete in a special freak category, although these competitions should only be held every thirteen years on an island off the coast of Greenland.
A little harsh but I tend to agree for the most part. If someone wants to change their gender, it's kinda like getting face tattoos and those choices have consequences. You should still be afforded all your rights, however, competing in athletics is a privilege not a right.
"Not joking. Western States will let athletes compete while on steroids, if they are trans men"
This is the Democrat party agenda. If you voted Democrat in the last few years, then you voted for this. I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't have. It's just a fact.
I cannot wait for this whole ridiculous movement to eat itself.
The only solution is to go back to the root of the problem, and affirm that gender and sex are the same thing. Affirm what humankind has understood for thousands of years, that men and women are separate and that human kind is permanently binary.
it would be better to agree that gender and sex are different things, that athletic competition should be grouped by sex, and there’s nothing inconsistent about being (for example) a biological male, but not feeling like a gendered man. I think you have it backwards.
I’d say that’s a fair, reasonable way to do it. What’s the outrage? Transgender men are females taking testosterone. Why would we want them competing with women? They should compete with men and will get obliterated.
The only solution is to go back to the root of the problem, and affirm that gender and sex are the same thing. Affirm what humankind has understood for thousands of years, that men and women are separate and that human kind is permanently binary.
it would be better to agree that gender and sex are different things, that athletic competition should be grouped by sex, and there’s nothing inconsistent about being (for example) a biological male, but not feeling like a gendered man. I think you have it backwards.
I have mixed feelings about this because I'm regularly around people who insist that interests, social roles, and personality traits--commonly grouped under the umbrella term, gender--have no relationship to sex. The sex/gender distinction, though useful for identifying the ways society can police people according to sex, creates a false dichotomy between nature and nurture. I know it doesn't have to do this, but it does in practice because people assume that social norms related to sex are entirely socially constructed. This leads some people to think that gender conforming people, rather than expressing the normative behavior patterns associated with their sex category, are dupes of socialization and morally inferior.
There's also this notion that people "identify" as a gender: woman, man, nonbinary. For people who aren't wrapped up in identity, this is really offensive. I'm a woman because I was born as a baby girl, not because I identify as such.
What you said is incomplete. Female runners can't take testosterone if they want to compete against females. If they want to compete against males as a trans man then it won't make any difference at the elite level. Gidey with testosterone won't beat the top men.
I’d say that’s a fair, reasonable way to do it. What’s the outrage? Transgender men are females taking testosterone. Why would we want them competing with women? They should compete with men and will get obliterated.
Male runners cannot take testosterone.
Feamle runners cannot take testosterone.
But trans runners can.
This is fair and reasonble?
Maybe I should quote the initial reply.
What you said is incomplete. Female runners can't take testosterone if they want to compete against females. If they want to compete against males as a trans man then it won't make any difference at the elite level. Gidey with testosterone won't beat the top men.
In the year 2022, everything is justified as long as you say its for inclusivity.
Transgender men can register to compete in the male or female category, unless they are undergoing hormone treatment related to gender transition that includes testosterone or any other banned substance, in which case they must register in the male category.
Can't people taking testosterone compete if they have a medical exemption? So say a man who has low T and takes it because it's required medically.
I think this is what they are saying here - transmen can take their medically indicated testosterone (TUE) but they have to compete in the male category. Seems to make sense.
Can't people taking testosterone compete if they have a medical exemption? So say a man who has low T and takes it because it's required medically.
I think this is what they are saying here - transmen can take their medically indicated testosterone (TUE) but they have to compete in the male category. Seems to make sense.
get out of here with your reasonable and nuanced take. We're here to misinterpret and overrreact.
What you said is incomplete. Female runners can't take testosterone if they want to compete against females. If they want to compete against males as a trans man then it won't make any difference at the elite level. Gidey with testosterone won't beat the top men.
But they are NOT competing against males, are they?
The only solution is to go back to the root of the problem, and affirm that gender and sex are the same thing. Affirm what humankind has understood for thousands of years, that men and women are separate and that human kind is permanently binary.
it would be better to agree that gender and sex are different things, that athletic competition should be grouped by sex, and there’s nothing inconsistent about being (for example) a biological male, but not feeling like a gendered man. I think you have it backwards.
The transgender movement is in rebellion against biology. If a man identifies as a woman, and he has a coworker, who refuses to refer to him as a her, that coworker will be fired and canceled in a lot of places.
We are prepared to go that far for people who want to be recognized as a different sex. But we won’t let them compete in their chosen sexual category. This “reasoning” such as it is, won’t to work. We all will continue to contend with men wanting to compete as women, and good liberals who are in charge of athletic competitions will continue to allow it, because they can’t reason any other way.
Who cares. This is just a way of a race to stay relevant.
Most don't ultrarunners don't care about this race. They have a hardcore following and their less than 400 slots get filled up with a complicated lottery system. It's really easy to stay away from this.
Exactly.
This rule applies to like 3 people in the world and we're talking about a speed-hike that's primarily there for personal achievement, not exactly the Olympic 10k final.
You could tell me runners can ride small ponies if they want and I wouldn't care. Good for anyone who does this, but if a trans-man or woman wants to run this they should be able to do so under their own terms and get their medal and feel accomplished. It affects no one what division they race under because the only purpose of the race is finishing it.
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