Why was Lauren Johnson kicked out of OTC?

When I see people link pro condemnation of various characters such as the Johnsons, I find it cheap simply because it is almost never accompanied by the facts that they know that underwrite their condemnation. To Pat Casey, for instance, I'd ask, what exactly makes you describe Nick Johnson in this way. What did they do at OTC to get them kicked out?

Unfortunately, I feel like professional runners like Praught-Leer, Casey, and others are just virtue signalling, piling on right now, but aren't very serious about evaluating how problematic these things really are in the sport. And I don't expect to learn much from them because the more salacious it is, the more likely it involves members of OTC - coaches and athletes - involved or knowing of abuse and use of PEDs, and that alone could ruin their reputations. So they pile on Nick Johnson (rightfully so), but they don't disclose anything to protect themselves. And this cycle will continue to repeat itself. This is nothing unusual - youth sports have done this, Boy Scouts did it, the Catholic Church did it, and of course - public school districts have made it an artform (and yet no one ever seems to do investigative journalism into how protective of sexual predators the large school districts are).

Back to the main focus - one of the things that helped with the BALCO scandal is Jose Canseco admitting to his own drug use, and then implicating others. Had he simply tried to protect himself, or just focused on others without admitting his own guilt, I wonder just how much we'd have learned about widespread PEDs in baseball in the 90s. I don't think it would have gotten the same attention (which initially was Canseco was full of it), and maybe McGuire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens et al are in Cooperstown already. Anyhow, until a former NOP member comes forward and admits they were involved in doping (if the allegations are true), or same with BTC and/or OTC, those groups or their reconstructions will continue to operate without the appropriate scrutiny.

Until people in this sport realize that protecting themselves is protecting sexual predators, abusers, and dopers, we will continue to have repeat episodes (though I don't know if ever as sordid as this one)

1) Steve Mullins was a convicted drug cheat. All we wanted was the NCAA to honor WADA suspensions.

2) You say we defend Shelby. Well we also made a shirt mocking the excuse.

3) What do you want me to do with Aden? On the podcast, Jonathan Gault seeems to imply he's guilty.My response is,"If they raid the hotels and don't charge him. I assume they didn't have anything concrete." Either that or the Spanish authorities are corrupt but then why raid to begin with?

The reality is the Aden case is the perfect example of this. It's VERY hard to catch a doper in the act. Why didn't the OTC folks didn't say anything earlier? WEll look at the NOP folks. Magness was suspicious but he didn't have PROOF. Neither did Kara, etc. Same thing here. Same thing with Aden.

Even with the Huntington case. We don't know they were given PEDs. Nor do the athletes. For all we know they were getting B12 injections. In terms of the OTC, I heard a rumor that the coaches found out someone had a TUE they didn't know about were irate about it as they thought that was shady and they were told to go elsewhere. ISo good for them if that's what happened, but even if that's true, guess what, a TUE is legal whether you or the coaches like it or not.

Weldon thought he saw an elite pro go into a portalet at NYC Marathon with a fake urine bag. He reported it. Nothing.

Charged or not, my recollection is that Aden was found with doping products. Doesn't matter if he was charged or not.

B12? Sure. Pollyannish.

OTC people need to explain this one.

Also, others were kicked out of OTC for non drug related things...like partying

Wouldn't be surprised if the Johnsons were doping and harassing other runners

OTC should have followed up and let Huntington University know what happened so they wouldn't be coaching there...or anywhere for that matter

Rojo, I feel bad for the position you and your brother are in. I haven’t always agreed with all of your opinions on every topic (what 2 people agree on everything?), but I believe you act in good faith and call ‘‘em like you see ‘em. I admire that. Most people, especially these days, would get worn down with the negativity, not have the individual fortitude, or the confidence in their convictions. Unfortunately, people have lost their minds. If you so much as ask questions instead of follow the groupthink like good sheep, you will be very disliked. Then after that, they will band together like zombies from the walking dead and do whatever they can to either make you quite or “cancel” you in some other way (it doesn’t matter to then if they go about it in some reprehensible way). It really sucks, and I’m sorry you have to hear these crybabies all the time. I hope that you keep it up and keep doing the excellent job you do.

Why in the world would that be OTC’s job? In corporate America if you get fired, your former company can’t even say why. OTC said they were let go - that’s the same thing as saying they were fired - that’s it, that’s all they can and should do. It’s Huntington’s job to do due diligence, which quite obviously they had no interest in doing. That is also why they will be held liable (civil or criminal) not OTC. The fact you wouldn’t be surprised something happened does not mean it did, and certainly does not make it automatically negligent on OTCs part.

Now if it comes out that OTC had solid evidence that they were doping and did not submit it to the proper authorities (who knows maybe they did and nothing came of it) Then they might share some culpability, but right now there is no indication that is the case.

APL was on OTC for many years.

Dude who didn't run in college thinks college coaches administering B12 shots isn't outside the realm of expectation.

What was the TUE allegedly for? We know you don’t need one for thyroid meds so that leaves some hormonal substance or asthma meds as likely culprit

Politics of running.

Might not be the thread for it, but I'd love to hear more about the fake urine story.

Must have learned that from Salazar too. Sounds like you did not even attend college given how naive you are. If you did, sue for malpractice. Dude. :)

You're correct. In a right to work state without a contract, you can be terminated and your employer does not need to provide a reason. Many corporations will only confirm employment history and that is it. Contract employment usually ends with a non-renewal unless the employee does something egregious or fired for cause is slam dunk - all to avoid potential lawsuits for wrongful termination or discrimination. I know some school districts will at least provide a no-hire to an employment record, but again, aren't required to disclose the reason.

However, if doping was involved, OTC needed to report it. However, it might implicate some of their athletes, and even if they took proactive steps when they found out about doping, could tarnish their brand. If there was sexual assault or abusive coaching behaviors, then being under USATF sanction, they are required to report to SafeSport. SafeSport, at times, has been very aggressive toward those who haven't reported, even when they might not be required to due to their position or employer (NCAA and NAIA don't fall under their jurisdiction). Even beyond, in both those cases, they have a strong moral obligation not to allow dopers, abusers, and sexual predators to be employed as coaches. I doubt we will ever know what lead the Johnson's from being removed/leaving OTC because it probably would do damage to that group, Nike, and potentially those there at the time. (Kind of like when Jenny Simpson went off on Salazar and NOP - and then suddenly went quiet and decided not to answer questions when she was linked to Dr. Brown).

Women don’t get ripped like she was without drugs. Just ask burrito girl.

Dude = rojo

Do you realize rojo coached D1?

Yep. I misread it. Mea culpa.

Those delts ain't natural.