Unpopular Bekele GOAT opinions

Farah essentially force-retired Bekele from track and field.

Bekele owned the 2003-2009 era

Farah owned the 2011-2017 era

but in that span Farah won 10 outdoor world track championship or Olympic titles while Bekele won 8.

Bekele is faster than Farah yes. I agree. But, Farah in a championship style race was more unbeatable. Farah had more impressive finishes than Bekele by the numbers. He ran similar times in those races in most cases as well.

As I explained earlier Bekele never beat El G in a world championship 5k. That’s because ElG had enough endurance and 5k speed to keep up and not get dropped, but he also had about 6 second 1500 meter PR on Bekele (3:26.00 to 3:32.3). Mo Farah was a 3:28 man with enough endurance to keep up with Bekele in the half marathon (Great North Run) while Farah was still a 5k/10k runner and Bekele had already transitioned to the roads.

I also just don’t put much stock in the world cross country championships from Bekeles era. The two competitions style actually watered down each race.

That doesn’t make any sense. The 4K made that event comprehensive and more challenging by featuring milers, steeplechasers, and 3k/5k specialists who wouldn’t be as competitive in a 12K. What’s more difficult: beating the steeplechase world record holder in a 4K or 12K?

In theory yes. It should be tougher to win both. But I think that the 2017 and 2019 world xc championships were more competitive than any in the early 2000s. I think the format played a role in that.

It’s not a theory. Go back and look at the fields. Here’s what I wrote about this previously:

In 2004 alone, Bekele defeated the likes of Gebregziabher Gebremariam, Saif Saaeed Shaheen, Isaac Songok, Craig Mottram, Adil Kaouch, Dejene Berhanu, Alistair Cragg, Kevin Sullivan, Abraham Chebii, John Kibowen, and Nick Willis in the short race, and then came back the very next day to trounce runners such as Sileshi Sihine, Eliud Kipchoge himself, Charles Kamathi, Zersenay Tadese, Fabiano Joesph, John Korir, Abderrahim Goumri, and Bob Kennedy in the long race. Incredible!

Please explain how winning a single race in 2017 or 2019 was more impressive than that double.

2019 vs 2004 we’re pretty similar fields

super elite group
1. Bekele (2004)

2. Cheptegei (2019)

3. Kipchoge (2004)

4. Kiplimo (2019)

5. Kamworor (2019)

6. Shaheen (2004)

7. Barega (2019)

8. Sihine (2004)

Many other great runners for sure in both years, but none who are on this upper tier level.

I’ll admit it. The 2004 double was more impressive for sure. The other years were not as strong though.

With 20 worlds and Olympics titles.

2 WR who stood many years and would still be there if not for the new shoes..

Bekele is top 3 with Gebresselassie And Kipchoge.

I still think he could be number one as Gebresselassiethey have worlds titles from indoor outdoors and cross country.

Major wins in Marathons

Gebresselassie had WR from 5K To marathon

World titles From 1500 meters to half marathon.

Now run these against all other on your list and apart from Kipchoge no one is close to their achievements.

And before you include someone on a GOAT list let them finish their career .

I am a fan of Jakob Ingebrigtsen but he is way out of top ten for now

With all due respect for his Lydiard training Lasse Viren was blood doped

Don't let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

Career head to head at 5000. Bekele vs. Farah. Bekele 6 wins. Farah 1 win.

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Career head to head all events. Bekele 15 to Farah's 6.

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BEKELE was the kind of XC and Track and set WRs. Farah was the kind of championship track and never set WRs. Kipchoge was the King of the marathon and pretty good at track.

farah was dominant during a time when some of the goats were either injured, old, or moved up to the marathon. cheptegei was a guy who only broke the WRs due to the carbon fiber shoes. and well kipchoge........ kipchoge got smacked by bekele dozens of times on the track. how the hell do you have ngeny in this list but not lagat?

in my opinion, bekele has the best genetics of any runner from 5000 up to the marathon. unfortunately, things go wrong and bekele's career became inconsistent after 2010. the only runner who may possibly be better than bekele is wanjiru but we may never know because he moved up to the marathon very early in his career and he also got dodged by geb

It was already pointed out that KB owned 2003 to 2009, and Farah 2011 through 2017...so those head to head matchups state the same thing.

If you look at the GOAT argument slightly different, forget about WR and medals, who was most dominant in their ERA? It really opens up the conversation because we cannot help the differences in rules, equipment, and training.

Farah was completely and utterly dominant at his height, and ran 3:28 1500 and something like a 59:30 half in the same season, prior to super shoes (just prior). He gets a lot of flak here but he did what he was supposed to do: win.

I'm starting to think WR just aren't as important to be honest. When Geb kept trying to lower the marathon WR in Berlin and Dubai with no real competition, people crapped on him for dodging competition. That would seem to indicate people want winners... Farah was a winner.

All that said, KB still wins overall because he was dominant on track and XC at the same time, beating Kipchoge himself most of the time. And no doubt had KB wanted to run a fast half back in 2005, 2006, he probably could have approached the then WR off of just his XC training, but alas, the half still wasn't quite as popular as it has ended up now.

what credentials coud someone have to call several events phony. Surely you have a few gold medals in the events right?

Bekele is the greatest distance runner of all time and I agree with everything you wrote here.

The thing is we all know about the track stuff, but it's the XC that sets him even further apart. 5 consecutive short/long DOUBLES at world cross is mind blowing. Not only do you have to deal with the 10km/marathon beasts in the long race, but you had to deal with some pretty good miler/3000m runners in the short and he did it, FIVE in a row.

I also agree with you on the WRs - more-so because of wavelight than the shoes but same same really. With even pacing lights he has both records in the 12.33/26.08 range.

And you top it off with the range - 3.32.35 only a fraction behind Kipchirchir Komen who was a 3.29.0 performer, right through to 2.01.41 - which was only a fraction behind the best marathon runner of all time for 4 years.

Nobody actually comes close. Geb second because his WRs at the time were mind blowing and totally shifted the paradigm especially in 5000m running (the 12.44 in particular which was 11 seconds under the old WR at the time) and because he was another guy that no matter what you threw at him he could always find a way to be just that little bit better (case in point Sydney 10000m with Tergat).

Finally, I don't actually like the mid-long distance combination. I think you have to separate middle and long distance - the spectrum gets too wide. Then you need to start factoring in guys like Snell, Walker, Coe, Ovett, Rudisha etc etc and it becomes almost impossible to even go through the fun of theorizing about this.

Based on the logic that some people are using in this thread, Viren should be in the top 5 and maybe even ahead of Kenenisa. Instead he’s not even on a list that includes Jakob and Coe in the top 10. So…that’s a troll.

I’ll give a solid 5/10 because it made me laugh and Rojo’s on here posting stats. And some good points are being made about Farah. Folks here are too quick to dismiss him because he’s such a tool.

Bekele's world records have all be broken therefore to me EL G ranks higher than him.EL G was not only dominant in his time but his record is still standing to date .My list is as follows .

Kipchoge

EL G

Komen

Bekele

This isn't a GOAT track runner or marathon runner or one hit wonder contest - it's GOAT runner on all surfaces and all distances. Nobody comes close to Bekele and likely never will. I think his pentaxc is one of the greatest running accomplishments of all time. Combine that with his track and road credentials, mindboggling.

Which leads to the next question; do we discount Bekele because of the lack of testing in Ethiopia during and after the EPO era (sort of like discounting Sosa, McGuire, Bonds in baseball)? If we do then I'd likely say Kipchoge.

As if Kenya’s testing is any better?

Regarding the final question I think the reality is we have to eliminate the drug narrative because the same could apply to Kipchoge (large outlier in an endurance sport backed by a brand who have actively turned a blind eye to doping over their course of their existence and who is now breaking records probably into his 40s). I think we need to look at it that way because we will never know and so you are right - nobody comes close to Bekele and likely never will.

How so? Bekele ran faster last laps in faster races than Farah. In a 2006 5,000m: 53:02 last lap in a 12:48 race

That 2013 great north run was Bekele's first Half as well. He failed to make the 2013 10,000m team just prior so not like he had some big advantage over Farah...aside just being better

The way I see it,Cheptegei or Kiplimo will eclipse Bekele's performances on track and cross country I.e the wins and the medals.However I reckon it will take sometime for anyone to break EL G records in the mile and 1500m.By the way you never hear EL G complaining about the new shoes technology or making excuses ,but everytime Bekele points to shoes as to the reason his records have been broken.How comes EL G records haven't been surpused despite the shoes advancement?The reason is because he was and still is a greater GOAT than Bekele.His performances were far more superior.