The weirdness of 400/800 dudes in Cross Country

You're more efficient at the faster pace and the recovery allows you to drop your heart rate and go again.

Whereas, with the sustained effort, your heart rate is probably only slightly lower than the faster paced interval, but you get no rest, and so it eventually works its way above the fartlek effort.

It's not that uncommon in sports like cycling, where, unless you're a time-trial specialist, you just don't train for long consistent efforts.

Are you saying that you run about 18:00 for the whole three miles with the fast-slow both included, but 18:45 in races? If so, then fartlek your races and start building your endurance with longer reps on shorter rest. 6x800s at 2:55, then 3-4xmile at 5:50, then 3x2k's in 7:15-7:20, 2x2M in 12:20 or under, and finally, 3M tempos at 18, as I am assuming that by the time you get to that point, you'll be capable of running sub-17 for 3M.

Exactly what I am saying. Thanks for the workouts. What rest should I take for the 6x800 and 3x2k?

I would recommend ditching xc and try to find a local club in your area that has preseason training.

240m fast and 160m slow? Are you doing this on a 160m track or something?? It's a perfectly good workout, just curious about the reason for the distances.

Anyway, good for you as a 400/800m man like you running XC! (Rudisha did, too.) As well as fartleks and tempos, maybe more so, a runner with this profile can get a strong benefit from longer intervals around 3k-5k pace.

I would suggest things like 3-4 x1000 hard, with equal time walking recovery. It doesn't look like much to distance runners with only 3k-4k of work, but if you start by doing this at your 5k pace and work them down close to 3k pace, the training response can be tremendous.

You can also do things like 4-6x 800 or 2xMile, you get the idea. A key thing here is not to worry much about how long or active the rest is. Distance runners thrive on 6-8x1000 with short rest, but you're a different kind of cat -- that's why you're a strong 400/800 runner! But you can still get very strong aerobically, which you want for that 800 (and good for you wanting to support your team).

Okay, I'm going to be contrarian on this: I think your racing should be more similar to your fartlek workout.

Yes, you don't want to go *nuts* on the opening part of the race, but the pace will no doubt feel easy/comfortable to a good 400/800 guy. Then, *before* you have to, take a break of slower running or even walking. (But if you walk, really walk! Don't dawdle, but instead keep your elbows moving back-back-back.) Rinse, repeat.

If you're on a hilly course and the downhills aren't dangerous, let yourself go with them. Use the gravity, let your legs have a high turnover (which a 400/800 guy should be able to do), and really flow down the hill. Be careful not to lean back--try to stay perpendicular to the downhill slope, and lead with your knees, not your feet.

Does this insane confusion go on around the world? I’m an uncivilized American that barely pays attention to what goes on here. So are there these same crazy arguments in Europe and Asia and Africa and wherever else people may love?

I always had my 800 people do the mileage runs w distance folks, but with less critical view. 400 people hung with te sprint coach and their patterns. There came times when we would call for half-milers to jump in the mile or two mile when we needed the points at a crucial meet. Discovered some good distance people that way! I think that was pretty common h.s. practice then.

Maybe try a Georgetown 400 workout? It's designed for sprinters moving up the distance.

It depends on your school size. Last year of HS XC is was scoring in the #4 or #5 on my team, for a small school, while running a 6:00 pace. Now I'm much better, and running #1 running a 5:20 pace. Still, sixteen minutes isn't that fast, depending on where you go.

I'm not sure. I'm an 800, 1600, and 3200 runner during track, but I'm better at XC. Usually 800m guys are better at the hard and fast intervals. Cross Country will lengthen your stride, which you will want for the 800. Cross Country is mostly a mental game. If you are an 400/800 runner, and you've done some speedwork for Cross Country, and if you have a good miles/endurance base, than it's just mental. There is an 800 runner on my team, and when he starts to get inside his head, and think about the distance left as well as the pain, he locks up, and it is a lot harder for him. On the other hand, his PR was the fastest on the team this year, mainly because he was focused, and because he didn't know exactly how fast his pace was. Basically, you can always go faster than your PR, because the odds of you having your best day on a day when you have perfect weather on a good course are low.