There are two type of bronze medalists and there are only two types of bronze medalists.
Type 1: Men and women who put themselves in position to earn a gold medal but came of a bit short. Examples, Mike Boit, 1972 Olympics 800m final, Nikolay Kirov, 1980 Olympics 800m final, Johnny Gray, 1992 Olympics, 800m final, etc.
Type 2: Men and women who raced in 5th or 6th place with 300m to go and hope others will fall apart and thus allowing them to obtain Olympic bronze. Examples, Paul Heinz-Wellmann, 1976 Olympics 1500m final, Stephen Kipkorir, 1996 Olympics 1500m final, Nick Willis, 2016 Olympics 1500m final, etc.
Both Kerr & Murphy are in group two until they get in an Olympic final and race to win.
Kirov in Moscow 1980 chose the tactic he did (hit the front with 250m to go) in order to win the bronze medal! He knew he had no chance of beating Coe (even when running the worst tactical race possible) or Ovett in the final. So he doesn't really fit into your 'Type 1' category.
Kerr was out to win in Tokyo and wasn't quite as good as the 2 in front of him on the day. He ran 3:29 low FFS! He then genuinely felt he had a chance of winning in Eugene, but for whatever reason (perhaps a break in training, summer cold, whatever) he didn't have it in him on that day. I'm sure he will have better days and more medals in the future.
What type of runner are you Deanouk? In my 40's, I used to go for it in 5K road races. I never finish in the top ten. I raced to win in my forties and got blown out the back end. A few weeks before my 50th birthday, I decided to race in 4 to 7 place in 5K road races until 500m to go. I started getting 3rd place medals. I am an expert on racing for 3rd. Tell me your experiences, racing for 3rd Deanouk. I know what racing for 3rd looks like. Btw, you are wrong about Nikolay Kirov. No one goes all out on the backstretch on last lap of 800m race in order to attempt to achieve 3rd place. No doubt N. Kirov was racing to win. It took ever ounce of talent in Coe's body just to slip past for silver.
The thing is, Murphy hasn’t even been that bad after 2016. In 2017 he ran a 1:43 800m but got injured at the US Champs. In 2018 he ran 1:43. In 2019 he made the world champs final but had a bad race and got last. 2020 he didn’t race much due to covid, but in 2021 he ran 1:43 to win the Olympic trials.
And even this year which was a pretty poor year for him, he ran a 2:15 1k, which is pretty solid. The thing is medaling in the 800m is tough and even 1:42 and 1:43 guys can sometimes only get one medal in their careers if even that. Nick Symmonds, Donovan Brazier, and Clayton Murphy all only have one medal each because medaling is really hard, especially in such an unpredictable event.
Came here to say this. This is the first year since 2015 (not counting COVID ofc) that he hasn’t run at least 1:43, and he has a 2:15 1k to his name, which is the second-fastest time in history for an American. Consistently medaling in the 800 is really, really hard. Murphy has gotten in at least one top-quality race every single year he’s competed. Yes, it would be nice to see him get another medal, and maybe there was pressure after 2016 to go for gold (that maybe led to his injury in 2017). But he’s done just fine. That Rio race was a magical day for him, he can’t be expected to repeat it regularly.
The same could be said of Kerr. Yes, he failed to medal this year. Boohoo. He ran 3:30 outdoors and a 3:48 AR indoors, made the final, and in general just had a solid showing. Once again, that race in Tokyo was something special, and you can’t expect him to repeat it every time he goes out. I am sure he has the goal of winning a gold medal. But I’m also sure he’s not crying himself to sleep tonight knowing that Eugene was not perfect. His day will come, and if it doesn’t then at least he will have an Olympic medal, PRs of 3:29/3:48, and a place among the British middle distance greats right alongside Coe, Cram, Ovett, and now Wightman.
This Kerr post from after Worlds I found was weird:
"56.38, 56.29, 56.14, 41.79. I stuck to my plan and left it all out there, now I have to live with the result."
-His plan was to hold back hope enough guys would run to win and die like Tim and Kipsang? I guess his fitness just hasn't been at a high enough level to run more aggressively this year.
What is the beef with Clayton Murphy? The only thing he does that slightly bothers me is he runs on his toes all the time. He is going to destroy those achilles tendons. Otherwise he seems like a very chill dude that I would have no problem running with or hanging out with. You can’t expect to go from 1:45 to 1:43 every year. A good career is going to have natural ups and downs. He is still running extremely well, as is Kerr. What is the rub?
Murphy has the best running YouTube channel out there. Best insight to what it's like being an elite runner.
Clayton Murphy made 2 Olympic teams, beat most American distance runners throughout his peak, and beat Matt Centrowitz in a 1000 race the year that Centro won gold.
Kerr is only one year away from winning the bronze. It's tough to medal twice in a row considering the talent
This Kerr post from after Worlds I found was weird:
"56.38, 56.29, 56.14, 41.79. I stuck to my plan and left it all out there, now I have to live with the result."
-His plan was to hold back hope enough guys would run to win and die like Tim and Kipsang? I guess his fitness just hasn't been at a high enough level to run more aggressively this year.
He ran three 56s in a row and then kicked in a 41. He's saying that he gave it everything and ran a hard race, and he didn't come away with a medal. He wasn't waiting for anything or trying to make it a tactical race. He didn't have a lot left in the tank because of a poor strategy.
He ran three 56s in a row and then kicked in a 41. He's saying that he gave it everything and ran a hard race, and he didn't come away with a medal. He wasn't waiting for anything or trying to make it a tactical race. He didn't have a lot left in the tank because of a poor strategy.
"I stuck to my plan and left it all out there" - I am not commenting that his plan was tactical or poor. I'm just saying that evidently his plan was to run reasonably hard for 1200 meters (not overly concerned about positioning) and kick. This is typically a strategy to win bronze or silver at best especially with a quality field. If you looked at everyone's tactics in the race they were:
Kipsang - Take it out hard, try to be no lower than 2nd or 3rd with 400 to go and then hold on Cheruiyot - Let Kipsang lead at first, then take the lead at 600 and slow it a bit before pushing the last 400 and saving a kick --> Jakob passing and then fighting off his bids for the lead screwed this up Jakob - Control the race from 900 out and just run a faster pace the last 400 than anyone can handle Wightman - Be right there at 1200 willing to cover moves/pace changes but staying out of tussles and away from the outside on turns. Go for the lead on the backstretch and trust your sprint the last 100.
There are two type of bronze medalists and there are only two types of bronze medalists.
Type 1: Men and women who put themselves in position to earn a gold medal but came of a bit short. Examples, Mike Boit, 1972 Olympics 800m final, Nikolay Kirov, 1980 Olympics 800m final, Johnny Gray, 1992 Olympics, 800m final, etc.
Type 2: Men and women who raced in 5th or 6th place with 300m to go and hope others will fall apart and thus allowing them to obtain Olympic bronze. Examples, Paul Heinz-Wellmann, 1976 Olympics 1500m final, Stephen Kipkorir, 1996 Olympics 1500m final, Nick Willis, 2016 Olympics 1500m final, etc.
Both Kerr & Murphy are in group two until they get in an Olympic final and race to wi
You did Willis dirty by putting him in Type 2, when he'd also gotten a silver in 2008
You do realize that just one year and one major championship has passed since Kerr medaled? In Murphy's case 4 major championships have passed since he medaled in 2016 without him getting close to the podium.
You know it's quite possible Kerr will never run faster or medal globally again and guess what, it will never detract from the time when it mattered the most and he went out and ran 3.29 and won an Olympic medal in one of the toughest eras of the distance.
You guys bagging him and Murphy, I mean you are all just a bunch of jabroni's who are really clueless. This sport is hard and middle distance running is about the most difficult undertaking there is in sports because it's solo and the talent pool, access and diversity of talent is greater than any other sport or sub category in sport. The guys who figure in consistently in medals (as we are now seeing with Ingebritsen etc) are the exception and not the norm and yet the line between an Ingebritsen and a Kerr is actually really fine. It's so hard to get to the level you need to in order to win anything let alone maintain it.
The bottom line is, Kerr could never even break 3.35 again and step foot in a major final and his career will have been a success. Even if he only did it once (like Murphy) he has done something and experienced something that all runners dream about and yet only a small percentage actually get to realize - and that includes even other really good pros.
Chasing the high of an Olympic bronze, and never quite regaining that old form.
Okay, several people have asked me to weigh in on this, so here goes.
Kerr has two advantages over Murphy with respect to his metal hopes:
1) The 800 is a young man's game, and Murphy will soon age out of it. It's the youngest event in track and field.
2) Murphy won his metal on a weak year. Kerr won it on a strong year. So Kerr can get a bronze any year, and if Cheruiyot gets injured or Ingebrigtsen moves up to the 5k, his job gets a lot easier. Whereas Murphy NEEDS a weaker year AND he has to get back into 143 shape to have hope.
The thing is, Murphy hasn’t even been that bad after 2016. In 2017 he ran a 1:43 800m but got injured at the US Champs. In 2018 he ran 1:43. In 2019 he made the world champs final but had a bad race and got last. 2020 he didn’t race much due to covid, but in 2021 he ran 1:43 to win the Olympic trials.
And even this year which was a pretty poor year for him, he ran a 2:15 1k, which is pretty solid. The thing is medaling in the 800m is tough and even 1:42 and 1:43 guys can sometimes only get one medal in their careers if even that. Nick Symmonds, Donovan Brazier, and Clayton Murphy all only have one medal each because medaling is really hard, especially in such an unpredictable event.
Came here to say this. This is the first year since 2015 (not counting COVID ofc) that he hasn’t run at least 1:43, and he has a 2:15 1k to his name, which is the second-fastest time in history for an American. Consistently medaling in the 800 is really, really hard. Murphy has gotten in at least one top-quality race every single year he’s competed. Yes, it would be nice to see him get another medal, and maybe there was pressure after 2016 to go for gold (that maybe led to his injury in 2017). But he’s done just fine. That Rio race was a magical day for him, he can’t be expected to repeat it regularly.
The same could be said of Kerr. Yes, he failed to medal this year. Boohoo. He ran 3:30 outdoors and a 3:48 AR indoors, made the final, and in general just had a solid showing. Once again, that race in Tokyo was something special, and you can’t expect him to repeat it every time he goes out. I am sure he has the goal of winning a gold medal. But I’m also sure he’s not crying himself to sleep tonight knowing that Eugene was not perfect. His day will come, and if it doesn’t then at least he will have an Olympic medal, PRs of 3:29/3:48, and a place among the British middle distance greats right alongside Coe, Cram, Ovett, and now Wightman.
Hey man, this is a very thoughtful, balanced, fair assessment. Not what we're looking for on these boards.
His coach talked about this on Instagram, Kerr tested positive for COVID right after the World Final, and struggled in Commonwealth games because of it.
3:30 and 5th in the World Final with COVID is a very respectable.
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