Jake MF Wightman 2:13.88!!

Rick Wolhuter ran 2:13.9 on July 30th 1974 … Think about it ! lol

Yeah the toughest part about it is it's so rarely run it's a hard one for the guys to know how to run it. How close to your 800m PR do you want to get through 2 laps? Should you run it more like a 1500 and try and kick hard in the final 250-300? It's really a hard one to know how to mentally approach.

Even yesterday it didn't look like Jake had really any kind of plan (which is not a criticism at all), especially with Arop so far out ahead of him the whole way. He was just kind of around at 200 to go and ended up blazing home for what was probably the most underrated performance of the meet (sub 2.14 is outstanding).

Once S. Coe defeated Steve Ovett, 1980 Olympics, 1500m final, S. Coe made S. Ovett wait until 1984 Olympics for a rematch. Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake LaMotta fought too often. We are looking for Mohammed Ali v. Joe Frazier. We don't need to see J.I. and J. Wightman racing every third or fourth weekend. As long as both are ready for a rematch at 2023 W.C., fine with me.

Only Coe and Cram faster on the UK all time list, with high 2:12s and no doubt paced.

Here's Coe's 1000.

Co-incidentally, that was the year Mary Decker ran close to the then WR over 800m at age 15.

The burritos back then must have been really juicy!

He ran out with relatively crappy shoes, likely on a crappy track and with no flashing lights to pace him. His time is wwwaaaayyyy better than Wightman's time. And he ran it almost 50 years ago!

So why does every American here think Coe doped because of his 'outlier performance', and yet Rick was clean as a whistle?

Incredible run! If he gets in a fast 800m at the European Champs I'm certain he will be capable of a sub 1:43 off of this performance. He's in the shape of his life.

<sarc>Yes, every American here sez that about Coe.</sarc>

9th fastest of all time because the event is never run.

And equal to a 3:35 1500 time.

Who cares.

Definitely much better than 3:35. More like 3:31.

Way too low on Tim to me, too. He's run 3:30.2 this year and the distance suits him and Wightman. You also have less time to lead, which is good because Kipsang probably does take it out. With the season Kerr is having I think you could basically fix this by swapping Tim and Kerr. Considering Peter Bol has run 3:35.8 FTW as well as 1:44.0 I'd swap Wanyonyi and him. Wanyonyi is inexperienced and would need a few cracks to get it right in the 1,000. On form alone I'd put Garcia Romo above Lemi.

I'd go:
Wightman
Cheruiyot
Sedjati
Kipsang
Bol
Arop
Kerr
Mario
Lemi
Rozmys

- I think the race honestly might finish faster (2:13 low) with the Kenyans pushing and providing drafting. Kipsang would probably lead out a reasonable pace after a fast first 200.

He lifted his own pace. Yes, Arop died but ideally in an 800 or 1,000 your last 200 is on par or a touch slower with your 3rd and 4th 200 and not an increased pace. If you're kicking you probably let off too much from 400-800.

No, Coe’s was 2:12 low (2:12.18), Cram’s was 2:12 high (2:12.88)

Both were alone in front and way up on anyone else from 600m. Wightman had more efficient pacing, light pacing and someone in front of him for 990m of the race. Not to mention he was running on a much faster track and in spikes that are lighter and give more energy return.

Interestingly, when I did this exercise last year and put Cheruiyot 3rd, you said you wouldn’t have him in the top-8:

Even though last year he was 2nd in the Olympic 1500 in 3:29.01 and had run 3:28.28 in Monaco, compared with 6th in Eugene in 3:30.69, which at the time was a SB.

Since he was 6th in the Eugene 1500, I don’t think 7th in a WC 1k is a stretch when you consider that in this hypothetical, you’re reducing the number of events between 200 & 10k from 4 to 3, so on average the mid-distances would become more competitive.

Cheruiyot ran that impressive 1:43.11 PB 3 years ago. My 2019 World Championship 1k top-8 were as follows:

2019 World Championship Final Results:
1. Timothy Cheruiyot 2:12.64
2. Donavan Brazier 2:13.00
3. Marcin Lewandowski 2:13.33
4. Taoufik Makhloufi 2:13.39
5. Ferguson Rotich 2:13.73
6. Jake Wightman 2:14.16
7. Amel Tuka 2:14.39
8. Craig Engels 2:14.85

52.42, 1:45.83 [53.41], 2:12.64 [26.81]

The last time Cheruiyot raced an 800, he ran 1:46.78 for 8th place in the 2020 Doha DL. He’s had intermittent hamstring issues in the last couple seasons, and it’s now August 13th and so far this is the first season since 2016 in which he hasn’t broken 3:30. I think Cheruiyot could easily be more like a 1:45.0 type performer this year who’s retained his ability to run 56s pretty comfortably. I’m not convinced he would have the confidence or the ability to lead through 800 at an aggressive pace, nor that he would have a relatively strong finish after going through 800 in 1:47.xx.

As for Wanyonyi needing a few cracks at 1k to learn the distance, I’m assuming that he’s raced 1k plenty of times because it’s the distance, while .8 kilometers is a weird off-distance that is rarely run. I suppose that further supports your contention that the times would be faster—though the WC 800 only went out in 52, so who knows.

Kerr ran pretty well at Worlds, 3:30.6 and beating Cheruiyot, and although his 800 PB is “only” 1:45.35 (from 2019, when he was 21), I suspect he’d be just as good at 1k as 1500, perhaps marginally better. Here I envision him starting as the defending Olympic champion, and just not being able to close down any on Wightman in the final 100 but passing Kipsang and a fading Arop.

Lemi ran 1:44.65 last year and 3:32.98 in the Eugene final ain’t terrible, so I figure 1k would be right in his wheelhouse. Mario Garcia Romo’s 800 PB is 1:46.90, but obviously that 3:30.20 at Worlds was a big breakthrough, so who knows.

If you care to THOUGHTSLEADER, I’d be interested in hearing who you think would even be in a 12 man final instead of the 12 men I’ve got. For example, I thought about putting Neil Gourley in the mix, but decided that Max Burgin would have qualified from the British Championships and then withdrawn last minute. Oliver Hoare would be a consummate ‘tweener, but decided he’d be running the 4k (as would McSweyn and Ingebrigtsen, certainly). Korir on the other hand would definitely be running the 500.

It would be really cool if they set up a Diamond League at some point next year where they run these distances. I doubt it would ever happen but it would be a great way to bring together competitors who rarely or never race each other (e.g. Norman vs Korir in the 500 or Arop and Bol taking on the likes of Wightman or Hoare in the 1000) and would be really fun and interesting to watch

He won that race with ease, could have gone a second faster. Definitely in the best shape of his life. And if the history of running is any guide, it will be difficult for him to ever return to this form. I hope they can find a good race or two in the next month or two where he can try to get in a sub-1:43 and/or sub-3:29, because it is unlikely he will ever be where he is again.

Wightman could chase someone, but he himself has had no direct pacing at all.