mdswatcher wrote:
she'll probably be better in the 1500
Whittaker has already run under the WC standard for the 800, but she is about 12 seconds slower than the WC standard for the 1500. So definitely the 800 is her better event.
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22
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I agree about Mu. With regard to the current women's 400m and 800m records what are people's thoughts about why track allows these records to stand?
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Mile Man wrote:
Whittaker is great but she doesn't have Mu's raw speed. That speed is what puts her on a different plan from everyone else. She can go through in 57 or 58 and doesn't feel it like they do. She's the closest to 1:53 or high 52 potential the world has without drugs.
I love how everybody points to (and smashes those up arrows on) an 800m runner's supreme 400 speed to justify why they're a class apart in the 800, but when people bring up supremely fast 400 runners and speculate that they could be elite in the 800 they get laughed out of the building
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zeropercent wrote:
Mile Man wrote:
Whittaker is great but she doesn't have Mu's raw speed. That speed is what puts her on a different plan from everyone else. She can go through in 57 or 58 and doesn't feel it like they do. She's the closest to 1:53 or high 52 potential the world has without drugs.
I love how everybody points to (and smashes those up arrows on) an 800m runner's supreme 400 speed to justify why they're a class apart in the 800, but when people bring up supremely fast 400 runners and speculate that they could be elite in the 800 they get laughed out of the building
There is some truth to this. My might be too fast for an optimal 800m girl. But I am not sure many of the girls in the field have even sub 52s speed. I always get the impression most are more like 52-53s which is a huge gap
21 -
Athing Mu 2:03.98 at 16 years old
Allison Ince 2:03.98 at 14 or 15 years old
Who knows if Allison Ince will become anything.
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Good Luck With That wrote:
800 crit1c wrote:
Mu will likely have the better career. By how much is yet unclear.
Athing Mu will go down as the greatest female (non DSD, non 1980's women on drugs) 800 runner in history.
However good Juliette Whittaker ends up being, she won't go down as the greatest of all time in either the 800 or 1500/mile.
Maybe as a professional Whittaker can get to the level of Raevyn Rogers, which would still be very impressive.
ok, you are restricting the list here.
Mu is ranked 8th right now
Only 2 women ran faster than 1:55 between 1990 and 2021. One of them is Caster.
So basically, you believe that Mu will one day run faster than Jelimo (who is ranked 3rd)
You probably did not have to add DSD to your restrictive list. The top 3 were not DSD to my knowledge.
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Harold #1 wrote:
I agree about Mu. With regard to the current women's 400m and 800m records what are people's thoughts about why track allows these records to stand?
Because the people in power who make those decisions are about the same age as all the drug users from the 1980's, and they don't want to kick their peers out of the record books.
Nothing will change until after they're all dead.
The next generation of leaders won't have any personal ties to all the 1980's drug cheats, and they will be more willing to consider getting rid of all those records.
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Lllllll wrote:
Good Luck With That wrote:
Athing Mu will go down as the greatest female (non DSD, non 1980's women on drugs) 800 runner in history.
However good Juliette Whittaker ends up being, she won't go down as the greatest of all time in either the 800 or 1500/mile.
Maybe as a professional Whittaker can get to the level of Raevyn Rogers, which would still be very impressive.
ok, you are restricting the list here.
Mu is ranked 8th right now
Only 2 women ran faster than 1:55 between 1990 and 2021. One of them is Caster.
So basically, you believe that Mu will one day run faster than Jelimo (who is ranked 3rd)
You probably did not have to add DSD to your restrictive list. The top 3 were not DSD to my knowledge.
Jelimo is also DSD.
20 -
fkkfkfkfkf wrote:
zeropercent wrote:
I love how everybody points to (and smashes those up arrows on) an 800m runner's supreme 400 speed to justify why they're a class apart in the 800, but when people bring up supremely fast 400 runners and speculate that they could be elite in the 800 they get laughed out of the building
There is some truth to this. My might be too fast for an optimal 800m girl. But I am not sure many of the girls in the field have even sub 52s speed. I always get the impression most are more like 52-53s which is a huge gap
Many top 800 women can't break 52 seconds in the 400, but they don't need to. Sub 53 is good enough to get a global medal.
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Good Luck With That wrote:
Lllllll wrote:
ok, you are restricting the list here.
Mu is ranked 8th right now
Only 2 women ran faster than 1:55 between 1990 and 2021. One of them is Caster.
So basically, you believe that Mu will one day run faster than Jelimo (who is ranked 3rd)
You probably did not have to add DSD to your restrictive list. The top 3 were not DSD to my knowledge.
Jelimo is also DSD.
She does not look like she is
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Lllllll wrote:
Good Luck With That wrote:
Jelimo is also DSD.
She does not look like she is
Many people on this message board said they were sure that Niyonsaba wasn't DSD. They were wrong.
And people are wrong about Jelimo too, because Jelimo is DSD. Some Jelimo supporters even made up stories about Jelimo giving birth to try to convince people that Jelimo wasn't DSD, although Jelimo giving birth didn't actually happen.
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Good Luck With That wrote:
Lllllll wrote:
She does not look like she is
Many people on this message board said they were sure that Niyonsaba wasn't DSD. They were wrong.
And people are wrong about Jelimo too, because Jelimo is DSD. Some Jelimo supporters even made up stories about Jelimo giving birth to try to convince people that Jelimo wasn't DSD, although Jelimo giving birth didn't actually happen.
So her daughter who was born in 2015 is not genetically linked to her?
If you are right then Mu is already #1 not 1970/80s and non DSD.
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There's literally zero proof that what they say is true. It's pure speculation.
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So when someone posts something that is 100% true, not derogatory, but also not all gushy saying everbody is god - that gets deleted by the moderator. But its OK to have a thousand posts about if I run a 90second 400 - predict my mile time.
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Lllllll wrote:
Good Luck With That wrote:
Many people on this message board said they were sure that Niyonsaba wasn't DSD. They were wrong.
And people are wrong about Jelimo too, because Jelimo is DSD. Some Jelimo supporters even made up stories about Jelimo giving birth to try to convince people that Jelimo wasn't DSD, although Jelimo giving birth didn't actually happen.
So her daughter who was born in 2015 is not genetically linked to her?
If you are right then Mu is already #1 not 1970/80s and non DSD.
The girl who is supposedly Jelimo's daughter is not her biological daughter.
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Mile Man wrote:
Whittaker is great but she doesn't have Mu's raw speed. That speed is what puts her on a different plan from everyone else. She can go through in 57 or 58 and doesn't feel it like they do. She's the closest to 1:53 or high 52 potential the world has without drugs.
What is overlooked is that in the men's 800 the best runners in the event weren't and aren't the fastest over 400. With the "anomalous" exception of Kratochvilova, this will apply even more so to the women's event, as it calls upon more endurance than it does for men.
Mentioning Kratochvilova, the difference between her best 400, of 47.9, and her 800 of 1.53.2, is around 8.6secs per lap. For Mu, the differential is similar. She is a 49sec 400 runner and a 1.55 runner over 800. That's a differential of 8.5secs per lap - virtually the same as for Jarmila. But the Czech was faster in terms of raw speed. This differential suggests Mu may not run faster over the 800 than 1.55 unless she improves her endurance.
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Mu's speed is what puts her in a category that Whittaker is unlikely to achieve. Mu is a 400/800 athlete and is probably not going to run but so fast in the mile, while
Whittaker has more upside in longer distances. Although I personally think it is a bad move, I would not be surprised to see Whittaker on Standford's XC team.00 -
Good Luck With That wrote:
Lllllll wrote:
ok, you are restricting the list here.
Mu is ranked 8th right now
Only 2 women ran faster than 1:55 between 1990 and 2021. One of them is Caster.
So basically, you believe that Mu will one day run faster than Jelimo (who is ranked 3rd)
You probably did not have to add DSD to your restrictive list. The top 3 were not DSD to my knowledge.
Jelimo is also DSD.
Jelimo has children.
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Good Luck With That wrote:
Lllllll wrote:
She does not look like she is
Many people on this message board said they were sure that Niyonsaba wasn't DSD. They were wrong.
And people are wrong about Jelimo too, because Jelimo is DSD. Some Jelimo supporters even made up stories about Jelimo giving birth to try to convince people that Jelimo wasn't DSD, although Jelimo giving birth didn't actually happen.
No one has provided any evidence at all that Jelimo's daughter isn't her own.
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TrackCoach wrote:
Mu's speed is what puts her in a category that Whittaker is unlikely to achieve. Mu is a 400/800 athlete and is probably not going to run but so fast in the mile, while
Whittaker has more upside in longer distances. Although I personally think it is a bad move, I would not be surprised to see Whittaker on Standford's XC team.Juliette will show up on Stanford's xc roster this fall, as will most of their 800m runners. However, unlikely she will line up for a meet with the possible exception of the Santa Clara Invite, a low-key affair usually held the same weekend as Pre-Nats.
More importantly, look for Juliette to run the mile/1500 next winter/spring as Stanford needs replacements for departed seniors Julia Heymach and Christina Aragon. Juliette's 4:36 mile is faster than anyone currently on the roster and she likely will team with fellow frosh Julia Flynn as Stanford's primary milers.
Roisin Willis has a very nice 4:40 pr mile but her 52.+ 400 speed means she will team with current Stanford junior/2:03pr Ellie Deligianni as the team's 800m specialists. Roisin will also be a mainstay on the 4x400 relay team.
Thus, look for Juliette to take her mile/1500 times down significantly as she will be racing those distances more frequently than the 800.
01
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