I bet most people here don't even know that tracks built with and without a rail are measured and laid out differently. 400m in lane 1 is measured 30cm from the rail, but only 20cm from the line if there is no rail. Cones are not requires, but the rule says "if cones are used...."
This. It's only an issue if the track is designed to have a rail but the rail isn't present.
appears there might be cones on the turns which suffice I think?
I just watched the footage posted above. There are most definitely no cones, and in my mind - and probably T&FN - it absolutely DOES NOT count. To me, he is a guy who has broken 5 minutes. Do it with bricks, cones, or an actual rail, and get drug tested afterward, or it is just an exhibition and nothing official. Rules exist. This guy ignores them. Of course, any of you may consider this a sub-4. In fact, all of you do!
LetsRun again demonstrates that it can’t recognize satire.
A number of years ago, Brooks PR hosted a 4 x mile with some good Seattle area teams. Many ran under 17:20 and one school from NY (Northport) missed the existing national record by a few tenths. Despite coning, the keeper of many of the high school lists Jack Shepherd and T&F News randomly added 3+ seconds to each teams final times. Not sure how they came up with that amount of time to add? This was all despite the original record setting team South Eugene High having run their record on a track with no rail/cones. Needless to say, it all seems subjective to who’s keeping score.
I just watched the footage posted above. There are most definitely no cones, and in my mind - and probably T&FN - it absolutely DOES NOT count. To me, he is a guy who has broken 5 minutes. Do it with bricks, cones, or an actual rail, and get drug tested afterward, or it is just an exhibition and nothing official. Rules exist. This guy ignores them. Of course, any of you may consider this a sub-4. In fact, all of you do!
What a ridiculous technicality. If this doesn't count, then neither does that 3:54 on a cinder track or whatever you guys say that Ryun did back in the day. At least there's video evidence of Gary Martin's run. Give me a freaking break
It's not just some technicality like a shorts length rule, there's a time advantage to running on a track without a rail. If there's a rail you need to run the curves slightly wide to avoid getting tripped up, with no rail you can run right on the edge of the line and most runners will occasionally step right on the line without getting flagged.
If a track was designed to be used without a rail then the curve radius is supposed to be 10cm wider to account for this. Assuming the track was designed to be used without a rail, was laid out correctly, and there's no rule requiring cones for high school records, then it sounds legit.
However if that track was laid out for a rail, each lap ends up being effectively .63m short. That works out to 2.5m in a mile race, or 0.37 seconds at 4:00 mile pace - more than the margin he beat Ryan's record by. He's already got a multiple-second legal advantage from the super spikes and synthetic surface, so I think it's fair to question if there was also an illegal advantage from a short track.
What a ridiculous technicality. If this doesn't count, then neither does that 3:54 on a cinder track or whatever you guys say that Ryun did back in the day. At least there's video evidence of Gary Martin's run. Give me a freaking break
It's not just some technicality like a shorts length rule, there's a time advantage to running on a track designed for a rail but without a rail installed. If there's a rail you need to run the curves slightly wide to avoid getting tripped up, with no rail you can run right on the edge of the line and most runners will occasionally step right on the line without getting flagged.
It's not just some technicality like a shorts length rule, there's a time advantage to running on a track designed for a rail but without a rail installed. If there's a rail you need to run the curves slightly wide to avoid getting tripped up, with no rail you can run right on the edge of the line and most runners will occasionally step right on the line without getting flagged.
Added some important details for you.
You mean the details that were in the part of my post that you edited out?
You mean the details that were in the part of my post that you edited out?
No, I mean details that you left out in your first paragraph that the reader would need to understand the concept. Don't burry those on page three of your discourse.
You mean the details that were in the part of my post that you edited out?
No, I mean details that you left out in your first paragraph that the reader would need to understand the concept. Don't burry those on page three of your discourse.
His post was three paragraphs - not that long. You can't read three short paragraphs?
Anyway, those trying to discredit the run are lame.
USATF: "The nominal length of an outdoor track shall preferably be 400 meters. It shall consist of two straights and two turns. The inside of the track shall be bordered by a raised curb of suitable material approximately 5cm high and 5cm wide. ... If a section of the curb on the curve has to be removed temporarily for field event competitors, its place shall be marked with a white line 5cm wide and by plastic cones or flags (minimum height 20cm) placed on the white line so that the edge of the base of the cone or flag pole coincides with the edge of the white line closest to the track, and placed at intervals not exceeding 4m."
This would be relevant if this was a USATF record we're talking about.
Good thing high school athletics has nothing to do with USATF. The record stands.
I just watched the footage posted above. There are most definitely no cones, and in my mind - and probably T&FN - it absolutely DOES NOT count. To me, he is a guy who has broken 5 minutes. Do it with bricks, cones, or an actual rail, and get drug tested afterward, or it is just an exhibition and nothing official. Rules exist. This guy ignores them. Of course, any of you may consider this a sub-4. In fact, all of you do!
What a ridiculous technicality. If this doesn't count, then neither does that 3:54 on a cinder track or whatever you guys say that Ryun did back in the day. At least there's video evidence of Gary Martin's run. Give me a freaking break
You do realize there is video evidence of Jim Ryun's state meet as well, and there is curb on the inside of his track. It is REALLY easy to find. The entire race is up on the internet. (The entire race is also included as an extra on the ESPN movie "Four Minutes"...the movie itself isn't good though)
What a ridiculous technicality. If this doesn't count, then neither does that 3:54 on a cinder track or whatever you guys say that Ryun did back in the day. At least there's video evidence of Gary Martin's run. Give me a freaking break
Jim Ryun's track had a rail.
And he ran it on cinders in trainers. Well, something far worst than todays trainers and super shoes.
But I agree, I believe in rules but this would be silly. If there is no evidence of clipping the turns then give the man his record.
I recall this same issue came up at a pro meet held at Balboa Stadium in San Diego. The track did not have a rail, it was coned all the way around. Brenda Martinez and a few others ran qualifying times for Nationals or something to that effect but because there was no rail at all, the times were not eligible for record or qualifying purposes or something to effect. I will look in the Let's Run archives for it.
It was at the ReRun San Diego meet in 2013. Martinez's A qualifier for the Worlds 800, wasn't recognized by USATF because it was not a sanctioned meet and the track did not have a rail (the RD stated it had been stolen twice for scrap metal and he didn't want to pay 10k for a new one). Regarding Martin, if no rail, and if his league meet wasn't a "sanctioned" USATF event, USATF probably won't recognize his time. Not sure what the HS Federation rules are.
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