Yes, I agree that Ryan Aidan would have won D1 nationals this weekend with his 4:05 on a flat track. Recall that for many years he was developed under the expert coaching of my son, Jamie Norton, who is a 4:06 miler and also would have won D1 nationals. D3 is superior
It would be about the same if D3 ran on the same tracks and had the same opportunities. Division isn't what makes people fast. They guys are all human.
You need to get over yourself. Seriously....
D3 is about as competitive as a 2nd tier D1 conference e.g. Metro Atlantic. Look at the #10, #50 times. Look at outdoor track depth. Look at XC times. D3 usually has a sub 4 and sub 29 every ~5yrs, and maybe 1-2 sub 14 every year. The same as MAC
If D3 is as competitive as a 2nd tier D1 conference, how do you explain the fact that Aidan Ryan ran faster than both the D1 and D2 mile national champions this weekend?
It is clear to me that D3>D1 and unfortunately it's not up for discussion.
NAIA turned D3 guy here...obviously D1 is much more competitive overall than D3, D2, or NAIA. That doesn't, however, mean every individual D1 competition or competitor is going to be superior to their corollaries in other divisions. Aiden Ryan's run at D3 nationals was objectively better than that of anyone in the D1 final. Notably, however, many of those D1 guys ran better in their prelims. That said, Ryan deserves his due for running the best collegiate mile final this year, especially accounting for the flat track that we have to run on. There are, periodically, other non-D1 athletes who produce superior performances to most or all from D1; Zouhair Talbi of the NAIA is one of the fastest collegiate 10,000m runners ever and regularly beats D1 guys at invitationals. Yes, I'm aware of the shady stuff surrounding Talbi's faked transcripts and questionable eligibility, but the fact remains that the man is fast enough to qualify for the Olympics (even if he didn't end up getting to go).
Don't I remember that in years past, a few top D2 or D3 athletes could qualify individually for the D1 national meet if they hit the times? I thought I remembered some years in which D2 or D3 had their nationals like the week before and came back to compete with the best of D1. (I have this vague memory of Karl Paranya .. but that was probably USATF Outdoor.)
Would be fun to see Ryan head to Eugene in outdoors - they're on different weekends.
also d1 nationals on a banked track like usual, while d3 nationals on a flat track, so really there's even a greater disparity between winning times
Oh yea, A couple years ago I knew a guy that ran 4:02 on a flat 200 meter track, and the next week he ran 4:05 on a banked 200 meter track. Thus, we can conclude that 200 meter flat tracks are faster than 200 meter banked tracks. In fact, the mile times at d3 vs d1 nationals proves this point as well
You can tell the people that like the OP post are light hearted, can get a joke type people while the people that dislike are whatever the opposite of that is.
Aidan Ryan is a 3:56 miler, so he is no joke, but D3 has, I think, only had two sub-4 milers in history, the first to do it being way back in the late 80s or early 90s at Haverford, Karl Paranya.
What's really interesting about that D1 final is that it shows just how great that German close was in the German nationals. He went through 1200m in 3:14, a second slower than NCAAs, but then closed in 36 with a 23.63 200m from 1200-1400m, and a 3:50 final time, equivalent to about 4:08. The NCAA guys could only manage 25.5-26.0.
No, Karl Paranya did it outdoors but in the past few years two D3 guys have done it indoors--Jeremy Hernandez from Ramapo and now Aiden Ryan. But yes, so far it is an exceptionally rare feat in our division.
Doesn’t D3 typically have more Oly Trials Marathon qualifiers too? And if it doesn’t it’s pretty close.
After college the D3 guys actually surpass the D1 runners who are then burnt out and hefty beer guzzlers.
I don't know what the official numbers are. Anecdotally, however, I can tell you that the people I've met in NAIA and D3 have (for the most part) a deeper passion and greater appreciation for the sport/running itself than the D1 people I've encountered. A lot of those folks seem to take their natural talent for granted--and once college running ends, whether by injury or suspension or graduation, they have no interest in using it anymore. Obviously, those who make it at the elite level have greater discipline; I'm talking about the average or below-average D1 runner. Personally, college running is coming to a close for me; I am already making plans to train with a friend as well as individually for the half and full marathons. I've never been anywhere close to good enough to even dream about doing it professionally, but I enjoy it too much to stop. I love and am passionate about track and field, cross country, and the team element of it all. The team part is what I'll really miss.
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