The question is who wins in a tri meet or who is better Bowerman vs OAC vs the ADP/WCAP group of Simmons.
On the women's side, does Simmons have a single finisher? In one sense I agree it's worth throwing them into the conversation, but the other 2 clubs would be so far ahead for half the events that it's not really worth including them.
I just want to note that everyone is overlooking the fact that Hoare must be the OAC’s best 3k runner, and the one who could give Ahmed and Fisher a run for their money.
Monson is running great right now and is at the tope tier of North American runners, but GDS and Cranny both closed the final 3k of their 5ks at about the same pace as Monson's recent 3k. Hopefully, Monson can step up further to give us a good race!
None of us have to choose sides. I like seeing both do well. The OAC guys should definitely see if they can look as silly as Grant Fisher doing his activation drills with the therabands. That may be the secret to Morgan McDonald's comeback.
Both programs have connections to dopers. You'd be hard pressed to find a successful program at that level that doesn't have some level of connection if you look at coaches, agents, sponsors. I choose to believe all of these athletes are not doping until there is strong evidence to suggest otherwise. There isn't any evidence to suggest the OAC team is, and there isn't evidence to suggest the BTC team has a systematic approach to doping. Any doping seems to be bottom up.
Jerry used to send his athletes to Dr Brown too didn't he? Sounds pretty systemic to me.
Yes BTC has a doping case. (And Shelby should be banned) But Ritz was coached (and had the majority of his success) under Salazar. The fact that the OAC guys are ripping on the UAC doesn't sit well with me. Ritz openly said he was on thyroid meds and has more likely than not seen/participated in all the shady/grey zone/illegal stuff himself. It baffles me that everyone hypes this group up (granted, they are good runners and seem like nice people) and completely ignore the fact where their coach was involved.
Rumor mill says he has all his OAC athletes on thyroid meds. Unfortunate if true - they are an easy group to root for otherwise
Uhh, the OAC coach definitely was a part of a program known for its use of grey area drugs. And Ritz has admitted to using IV for L-Carnitine. Would a "clean" athlete volunteer for that?
And Ritz admitted to taking thyroid medication he knew he didn't need.
Whatever, he never got dinged by WADA or AIU, but I think some posters are seriously showing their youth when comparing ppl to BTC. Even saw one someone unironically say UAC > than BTC because they haven't had anyone banned before.
And Ritz admitted to taking thyroid medication he knew he didn't need.
Whatever, he never got dinged by WADA or AIU, but I think some posters are seriously showing their youth when comparing ppl to BTC. Even saw one someone unironically say UAC > than BTC because they haven't had anyone banned before.
Glass houses and all that.
I'm talking about athletes, not coaches.
Does OAC have an athlete serving a doping ban?
No, but they have a coach who ran under a permanently banned coach and admitted to taking thyroid meds.
That's not the point. If you're willing to hate a group based on a moral absolutist point on clean sport proven against one individual, then holding up and supporting another group that itself has a key individual with past transgressions, it's not that you care about ethic and clean sport, it's that you don't like one of the teams.
In plainspeak, if you don't like BTC cause anyone associated with cheating rubs you the wrong way, but you like OAC, then you don't actually care about the clean sport bit you just don't like BTC. Which is totally fine. Free country, hate BTC: sponsored by the big bad swoosh, have vacuumed up top talent for a decade, emphasis on running fast vs racing; with UAC a shadow of NOP, BTC 2022 make a great Goliath in many narratives. Just encouraging people to be honest with themselves about why they like dislike a group.
All that said, I'd encourage people to join the side of enjoying both teams having awesome seasons and having some entertaining characters.
That's not the point. If you're willing to hate a group based on a moral absolutist point on clean sport proven against one individual, then holding up and supporting another group that itself has a key individual with past transgressions, it's not that you care about ethic and clean sport, it's that you don't like one of the teams.
In plainspeak, if you don't like BTC cause anyone associated with cheating rubs you the wrong way, but you like OAC, then you don't actually care about the clean sport bit you just don't like BTC. Which is totally fine. Free country, hate BTC: sponsored by the big bad swoosh, have vacuumed up top talent for a decade, emphasis on running fast vs racing; with UAC a shadow of NOP, BTC 2022 make a great Goliath in many narratives. Just encouraging people to be honest with themselves about why they like dislike a group.
All that said, I'd encourage people to join the side of enjoying both teams having awesome seasons and having some entertaining characters.
100%. BTC is trash. They are associated with Nike. I don't like them or the systemic doping approach Nike takes in all their sports.
That's not the point. If you're willing to hate a group based on a moral absolutist point on clean sport proven against one individual, then holding up and supporting another group that itself has a key individual with past transgressions, it's not that you care about ethic and clean sport, it's that you don't like one of the teams.
In plainspeak, if you don't like BTC cause anyone associated with cheating rubs you the wrong way, but you like OAC, then you don't actually care about the clean sport bit you just don't like BTC. Which is totally fine. Free country, hate BTC: sponsored by the big bad swoosh, have vacuumed up top talent for a decade, emphasis on running fast vs racing; with UAC a shadow of NOP, BTC 2022 make a great Goliath in many narratives. Just encouraging people to be honest with themselves about why they like dislike a group.
All that said, I'd encourage people to join the side of enjoying both teams having awesome seasons and having some entertaining characters.
100%. BTC is trash. They are associated with Nike. I don't like them or the systemic doping approach Nike takes in all their sports.
100%. BTC is trash. They are associated with Nike. I don't like them or the systemic doping approach Nike takes in all their sports.
You're really going to hate the OAC coach then...
Ritz, like all the others from his era used Thyroid meds. Got it, understood and that's old news.
Now, put your big boy thinking hat on and think hard right now. Which group do you think 100% is doping right now. OAC? Possibly with Ritz as the coach. Or BTC who just set 3 indoor national records and has an America Record holder serving a ban right now who just ran a 14:47 time trial and has been training (low key hidden) with their team?
Ritz, like all the others from his era used Thyroid meds. Got it, understood and that's old news.
Now, put your big boy thinking hat on and think hard right now. Which group do you think 100% is doping right now. OAC? Possibly with Ritz as the coach. Or BTC who just set 3 indoor national records and has an America Record holder serving a ban right now who just ran a 14:47 time trial and has been training (low key hidden) with their team?
So just to understand your argument, when Ritz was doping it was okay, right? And it's not suspicious to have an admitted doper currently coaching your group, right?
And BTC are currently more likely to be doping because they are better than OAC, right?
The fact that the OAC guys are ripping on the UAC doesn't sit well with me. Ritz openly said he was on thyroid meds and has more likely than not seen/participated in all the shady/grey zone/illegal stuff himself.
I think I missed it — what did OAC say about UAC??
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