Can we all agree RunningLane was a joke now?

ritzwithsahlmanontop wrote:

Recent meet results confirm the top five finishers at RunningLane are not the five best high school runners of all time.

Biggest straw man I’ve ever seen in my life. Nobody said that the top 5 at running lane were the greatest ever, nobody even said that their performance was better than ritz’s old 14:10 record, nor did they say it was better than his footlocker performance. We all understand what it means to have a course be flat and therefore faster than another course. You aren’t dunking on everybody with the knowledge that a slower time can be more impressive than a fast time if the course had hills.

The only thing people did do, was push back at the absurd notion that the course was short. Stupid people have an incredibly poor understanding of just how much knowledge is outside of their own knowledge. They think the bounds of all possible knowledge lies right outside what their own bounds are. They think that they can have an understanding of virology, immunology, evolutionary biology, sometimes, climate science, etc, when the reality is that they are so far away they can’t even comprehend what it would take to have a comprehension of it. Similarly, they think that because they don’t know how to measure a course consistently and accurately, it must be very hard and subject to a lot of error. We know how to measure stuff, and we are very good at it, we have used the same engineering principles to send a human being to the moon. We know how to measure a 5k. Just because your random local meet may have just mapped it out on google one time to save money, doesn’t mean that the national meet did that. They hired someone, and I promise you that they know how to measure it. It’s like their one job. It’s a race across a specific distance, I’m pretty sure they are going to get that distance correct.

hi school senior wrote:

I think we can agree Brosnan is not as great as he thinks he is, after these results.

WHY the HELL are these athletes running so hard after their national championships on December 4th??????

Brosnan doesn't care about their long term development. He cares only about his own coaching legacy.

Lol you know people typically run races hard right? That's how it works.

It seems like the OP is a Ritz fanboi that is simply butthurt that someone ran a cross country 5K faster than Dathan did. It's fuqing cross country. Who gives a sh!t about times?

These results actually prove the opposite of what you’re suggesting. A 4:05 mile in 11 mph sustained winds with gusts over 20 mph in January DOES put Sahlman in the conversation for GOAT. They will have all 4 under 4 as a team this year. I’m calling it (7 total sub 4s in the class of 2022).

ASU for the W wrote:

Here's a quick list of NP graduates during Brosnan's tenure that were top varsity contributors. Let me know how they're all doing. I'm sure I've missed someone, but still not a trend that indicates success after leaving NP.

Ethan Duffy

Nathaniel Garner

Kyndall Long

Ethan Ronk

Nico Young

Jace Aschbrenner

Thomas McDonnell

Christian Simone

Nicholas Goldstein

Nico is a generational talent and would make any coach look like a genius. Aschbrenner started out solid, but not spectacular, especially for a 8:43 3200 caliber kid. Goldstein just ran a 4:19 mile and the rest have not run or are not running anymore. I'm sure there's excuses for all of them, but only Nico has lived up to billing.

EXACTLY

The thing about RL is that it is a newly designed course. Last year we had no conparative results to go by. We now have two years of times and direct comparisons with Balboa Park. For whatever reason, the course is super fast.

I’m confused. So in your mid developing a boy who would have run 9:10 or slower at any other school into an 8:43 boy is a bad thing? If Jace had run 9:10 in high school no one would even know who he is. He wouldn’t be doing any better now if he was underdeveloped in high school, you just wouldn’t know who he is.

Yes that is better to the D3 crowd.

Running Lane is a 3 mile course. Case closed.

Here's how good Nico Young's 4:02 was. He beat Grijalva, a 13:12 5000m runner and Olympic finalist by 2 seconds. He beat Drew Bosley, a XC All-American by 5 seconds. He beat Nur, a 13:20ish/27:47 guy, by 9 seconds.

Hutchins dropped 25 seconds the next week on the track. That is one tough 3 mile course. And funny that thousands of GPS readings have it over 3.1. Did they figure out some way to mess with the signal. The GPS readings were the same for Balboa.

ritzwithsahlmanontop wrote:

Recent meet results confirm the top five finishers at RunningLane are not the five best high school runners of all time.

Reading these posts, I think we need a consensus about the question here. I don't think anyone was suggesting that NP has the 5 best HS boy's runners of all-time (I know that wasn't what the OP said). Conversely, pretty much everyone agrees that they are the best XC team of all-time.

So I think this is the discussion:

Some people think that the NP top 3 this year are ALL (at least with the shoes) as good or very close to the best US HS runners ever (Ritz, Cheserek, Solinsky, etc.). i.e. they are a team of historically great runners. Others think that they are more in line with the typical Footlocker top 3.

I would propose the following test:

-- If at least 2 NP runners total run under any one of 3:58 (mile), 8:32 (two-mile), 13:40 (5k), or their conversions, then the first group wins

-- If any of them breaks a major high school record (call it 13:35 for the 5k, since that record may be a little weaker) OR any runner besides the XC top 3 hits one of the standards above, the first group also wins

-- If none of them achieve any of these standards, then the second group wins

-- Anything else is a draw, barring unusual circumstances (two of them get injured, Covid-22 makes landfall, etc.)

Does this seem like a reasonable place to draw the line?

Yes

hi school senior wrote:

ASU for the W wrote:

Here's a quick list of NP graduates during Brosnan's tenure that were top varsity contributors. Let me know how they're all doing. I'm sure I've missed someone, but still not a trend that indicates success after leaving NP.

Ethan Duffy

Nathaniel Garner

Kyndall Long

Ethan Ronk

Nico Young

Jace Aschbrenner

Thomas McDonnell

Christian Simone

Nicholas Goldstein

Nico is a generational talent and would make any coach look like a genius. Aschbrenner started out solid, but not spectacular, especially for a 8:43 3200 caliber kid. Goldstein just ran a 4:19 mile and the rest have not run or are not running anymore. I'm sure there's excuses for all of them, but only Nico has lived up to billing.

EXACTLY

Does this indicate that Brosnan did a good job coaching these kids, or a bad job? Are we looking at all the facts to come to our conclusion, or did we make an assumption and work backward to prove it?

Nobody ever wants to mention it, but it could be that the environment at NPHS, training under Brosnan, and running with other studs every day was simply more conducive to running fast than any situation these kids might find after high school.

Not every runner will improve in college- only something like 25% of all footlocker qualifiers ever qualify for an NCAA championship race. For every sub-four high school miler who goes on to qualify for the USATF championships, there's another that, unfortunately, fades into obscurity.

OhioBuff wrote:

hi school senior wrote:

EXACTLY

Does this indicate that Brosnan did a good job coaching these kids, or a bad job? Are we looking at all the facts to come to our conclusion, or did we make an assumption and work backward to prove it?

Nobody ever wants to mention it, but it could be that the environment at NPHS, training under Brosnan, and running with other studs every day was simply more conducive to running fast than any situation these kids might find after high school.

Not every runner will improve in college- only something like 25% of all footlocker qualifiers ever qualify for an NCAA championship race. For every sub-four high school miler who goes on to qualify for the USATF championships, there's another that, unfortunately, fades into obscurity.

That's a perfectly fair assessment. I agree with you. Many give the coach way too much credit or blame. I was simply pointing out the names. There are a host of conclusions you can draw, but to suggest somehow Brosnan knows how to set kids up for success at the next level isn't accurate. He's just like every other coach who is trying to win where they are with what they have. He's not a mastermind who understands transition to college better than all the other coaches in the country.

Look at the other Running Lane posts. All that was talked about was how the top finishers efforts/times were better than Ritz's. Some even went so far as to say They broke/set the 5k cross country 5k record---there isn't even such a thing!

Ethan Duffy 9:19 HS and then school record 15:47 5k at Cal States. 24:44 8k as a soph at Cal Poly--then no more results.

Nathaniel Garner Weber State, ran 4:41 in December 2021, 4:09 1500m last May his best result next to a 2:00 800m in 2019.

Kyndall Long ran 15:52 xc at Cal states, can't find any collegiate results

Ethan Ronk Belmont Bruins 4:40.95 mile in 2020 and no other results

Nico Young 4:02 at altitude/13:22 5000m, U.S. junior record, 4th at NCAA xc as a freshman

Jace Aschbrenner 8:43 2M high school, 23:36 Colorado 8k xc in 2021, 4:12 mile just now at 5357 feet altitude.

Thomas McDonnell don't seem to be any results (there's a blank entry for someone at Cal Poly Pomona)

Christian Simone 4:27/14:47 in hs, no results yet for Oregon

Nicholas Goldstein 4:14/9:00 hs; college at Furman, 4:19/15:15/24:32 (but ran 25:55/26:02 later in the season, so maybe that course was short)

Nico is a generational talent and would make any coach look like a genius. Aschbrenner started out solid, but not spectacular, especially for a 8:43 3200 caliber kid. Goldstein just ran a 4:19 mile and the rest have not run or are not running anymore. I'm sure there's excuses for all of them, but only Nico has lived up to billing.

To summarize, Nico has improved, Ascbrenner has stayed the same and the rest got worse.

ritzwithsahlmanontop wrote:

To summarize, Nico has improved, Ascbrenner has stayed the same and the rest got worse.

23:36 as a freshman is very good...