ghghgh wrote:
#Dinggy ding Dong Katir is Gone wrote:
3:36 did reflect his potential. He was a strength based 1:51 guy with no basic speed.
I also doubt that 1:51 was his actual potential in 2018 (when he also ran 3:37). He was certainly (at least) a 1:48 guy in 2020 (had he had a few good opportunities)
I wonder what type of 800m time he could run now. I assume 1:46
What were El Gerrouj/Lagat’s 800m bests? 1:44/45?
Ngeny seemed a bit more speed based (1000m wr).
Montjuic wrote:
ghghgh wrote:
I also doubt that 1:51 was his actual potential in 2018 (when he also ran 3:37). He was certainly (at least) a 1:48 guy in 2020 (had he had a few good opportunities)
I wonder what type of 800m time he could run now. I assume 1:46
What were El Gerrouj/Lagat’s 800m bests? 1:44/45?
Ngeny seemed a bit more speed based (1000m wr).
El G. 1:47.18 in Turin in 1995 when he was 21 years old. He did not focus on 800 m after that but one assumes that when he ran his best times of 3:26.00 for 1500 m in 1998 and 3:43.13 for the mile in 1999 when he was 24 and 25 years old, he would’ve been good for around 1:44.00 for 800 m.
Lagat: 1:46.00 achieved in Berlin in 2003 when he was 29 years old.
It is insane how slow Lagat was for a 3:26.xx guy. I wonder what his 5000 capability was if he went for that at an earlier age.
#Dinggy ding Dong Katir is Gone wrote:
He might break a few records if he catches the right breaks, but totally annihilate the sacred stuff, no, never gonna happen.
.,,.
Please see below the first post from the K. Bekele thread from 18 years ago when someone was predicting WRs for Bekele. Very funny in retrospect.
“titles-- yes; records-- no...
now that they've curbed the epo thing, it will be a long time before we see 12:39 and 26:22 again...”
To answer your question, it would be a shock to me if he breaks any of the real records (not counting indoors). The big jump was last year with access to big meets, better support in training, Asics super spikes etc. Monaco was a perfect setup for him at 1500 and the 5,000 worked out well for him as well. Could see a 12:45 or 7:25 in the coming years, though.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
To answer your question, it would be a shock to me if he breaks any of the real records (not counting indoors). The big jump was last year with access to big meets, better support in training, Asics super spikes etc. Monaco was a perfect setup for him at 1500 and the 5,000 worked out well for him as well. Could see a 12:45 or 7:25 in the coming years, though.
What did it for me is the fact that he ran 27:45 yesterday. Same date last year, he ran 28:58. Four weeks later he ran a 7:35…
I’m not expecting him to have the same improvement ratio in the 3000m than he just had in the 10k (that would be 22s improvement in the 3000m). Could we see half ? 11s (a WR) Perhaps…. Can we see 3s (a ER)?For sure…
high school xc coach wrote:
It is insane how slow Lagat was for a 3:26.xx guy. I wonder what his 5000 capability was if he went for that at an earlier age.
If Lagat had focused for one season on 800 m I think he would’ve finish the season with around 144 to 145. It’s a different kind of training system. Strength-based holding top speed.
crazy to see the katir hype on these boards. it was somewhat justified going into the olympics, but he performed terribly when it mattered most (there are a multitude of possibilities for this). until he actually wins something i doubt his major competitors are too concerned.
OozmaKappa wrote:
Alright, I'm convinced.
Katir is currently the best European distance runner.
Dinggy................. wrote:
Krippa is. Or soon will be.
----------------------
Objective observer writes:
What about the winner of mutual European Championships on the track and in cross country, And European Record holder in the 1500m (in and outdoors), 2000m and 5000m?
I queried Lagat at the hotel after a Golden League meet when his 800m was coming down, or if he'd ever run faster in practice.
Lagat emphatically stated that 1:46 was his limit for 800m. And,no, he'd never line up for another one.
ghghgh wrote:
#Dinggy ding Dong Katir is Gone wrote:
3:36 did reflect his potential. He was a strength based 1:51 guy with no basic speed.
I also doubt that 1:51 was his actual potential in 2018 (when he also ran 3:37). He was certainly (at least) a 1:48 guy in 2020 (had he had a few good opportunities)
I wonder what type of 800m time he could run now. I assume 1:46
But we're not talking potential. On paper he was a 1:51 guy.
Question: Did he win or lose that 1:51 race?
Let's play the game and call him a 1:48 potential.
Where did he find the strength to run within a second of his PR in training -- twice -- with two Ks at 1:49 pace?
Sliced any which way, his improvement is/was rather unusual.
What are You talking about?
800m is far from top speed. Training is very similar to 1500m unless Your are ex 400m sprinter.
#Dinggy ding Dong Katir is Gone wrote:
ghghgh wrote:
[quote]#Dinggy ding Dong Katir is Gone wrote:
[quote]ghghgh wrote:
I also doubt that 1:51 was his actual potential in 2018 (when he also ran 3:37). He was certainly (at least) a 1:48 guy in 2020 (had he had a few good opportunities)
I wonder what type of 800m time he could run now. I assume 1:46
But we're not talking potential. On paper he was a 1:51 guy.
Question: Did he win or lose that 1:51 race?
Let's play the game and call him a 1:48 potential.
Where did he find the strength to run within a second of his PR in training -- twice -- with two Ks at 1:49 pace?
Sliced any which way, his improvement is/was rather unusual.
He won that 800m in 2019. I was also an early May race (season opener for him?). As I said, that 800m was not the best that he could have done in 2019. Je is clearly not an 800m/1500m guy. Which is why he does not run the 800m (or rarely)
was his bad performance due to race inexperience ?
Apustajan wrote:
was his bad performance due to race inexperience ?
He simply does not seem to do well in championships
4th in Euro indoor (even though he ran 7:35 a few weeks earlier - 5th Euro perf all tine)
2nd Spanish champ 5000m
8th Olympics
It looks like he can’t kick off slow pace
#Dinggy ding Dong Katir is Gone wrote:
ghghgh wrote:
I also doubt that 1:51 was his actual potential in 2018 (when he also ran 3:37). He was certainly (at least) a 1:48 guy in 2020 (had he had a few good opportunities)
I wonder what type of 800m time he could run now. I assume 1:46
But we're not talking potential. On paper he was a 1:51 guy.
Question: Did he win or lose that 1:51 race?
Let's play the game and call him a 1:48 potential.
Where did he find the strength to run within a second of his PR in training -- twice -- with two Ks at 1:49 pace?
Sliced any which way, his improvement is/was rather unusual.
“Where did he find the strength to run within a second of his PR in training -- twice -- with two Ks at 1:49 pace? ”
Would you kindly expand on this? What does this mean? Is this a training session that you’re referring to?
Katir is the most obvious doper in elite running today.
Kobbs Hessler wrote:
Katir is the most obvious doper in elite running today.
We should not jump to conclusions about this so quickly and there’s absolutely no proof of this. In addition, he trains in Spain all the time and he can always be located.
His high altitude training base is in the Sierra Nevada where random checks are periodically organized or he stays in his south eastern provincial town of Mula, where he could also be easily located.
He never goes to Morocco or South Africa (Kenya or Ethiopia) or other places where it would be difficult to follow him 24/7.
The Running Poet of Mula, as he is known in Spain, is an open book and always accessible. This would suggest that he is as clean as a whistle and has nothing to hide by all accounts.
It is disappointing, but predictable, the people cannot just accept that he (Katir) is an exceptionally talented and dedicated individual. Reading the press in Spain and the forums, it can be gleaned that no one has a bad word to say about this delightful boy. The same cannot be said about people like Aouita, Ramzi and Mourhit, who were controversial individuals who had their moments with other people.
lvrhs1992 wrote:
What are You talking about?
800m is far from top speed. Training is very similar to 1500m unless Your are ex 400m sprinter.
I am guessing that Lagat would have had, at best, around 48 or 49 seconds for 400 m flat, and so in some of the top 800 m races when they (sometimes) go through the bell in just over 50 seconds he would not be far from his (close to) top speed for 400, and under a certain amount of stress. Not much of a differential there. Cram was another example of an athlete who was not a 400 m sprinter and could hold his speed not far from his native pace at 800 m.
Well, there is|was actually quite a lot of suspicion around him among elite Spanish athletes, including posts in Instagram and so on.
In fact, after he flicked his 3.28 (or after his win in the 5kk in the Diamond League, I dont remember) he said to the camera "no oigo, no oigo nada' which can be interpreted as "I don listen to the whispers\doubters/ whatever".
On the other hand I agree with you. He is kind and very cheerful, I like him and his (really bad in my view heheh) poetry makes him still more likeable. And as far as I know, yes, no strange connections and very public about his whereabouts. But I am an agnostic regarding if a progression like that is naturally achievable, I want to believe though...
Regards