If 8:44 is their 7th guy, there is no way that there are 25 states with a guy that fast.
If 8:44 is their 7th guy, there is no way that there are 25 states with a guy that fast.
Bower Man wrote:
I didn't get far. Mark Johnson IA?
4 time IA state XC champ.
There was a guy from California named Rich Kimball ran 4:06/8:46 mile/2mile double at the state meet in 1975.
older and wiser wrote:
If 8:44 is their 7th guy, there is no way that there are 25 states with a guy that fast.
Pretty bad way to compare across generations though, particularly considering we’re talking XC.
All the dudes on my list were more competitive nationally than Jace.
4:59 wrote:
Bower Man wrote:
No.
UH--Yes and here they are: Mahoney-GA, Pyrah-MIssouri, Finnerty-MN, Hamilton-Montana, Springer-RI, Engels-NC.
Thats 26 states that have had guys with pr's faster than NP #1. Also all of these states have had someone break 9:00 min for 3200.
NP #1 is the high school record holder in the 3000 and 4th fastest at 5000. Or, you can take his junior 3200 time of 8:40. Are there really 26 states with guys with faster PRs?
9:06 PR. He isn't beating an 8:44 guy.
No
Bower Man wrote:
9:06 PR. He isn't beating an 8:44 guy.
First of all we’re talking XC not track, and we’re comparing across generations. You guys are putting way too much stock into 2019-2021 shoe/national competition times that are obviously faster on the track than prior generations, but doesn’t indicate that they were better.
But okay, assuming we give you that one. What about the other 34 guys I was able to think of off the top of my head? Not to mention the states I don’t know about.
birdbeard wrote:
4:59 wrote:
I just looked at the all time top ten( just the top ten) high school lists for the mile, two mile, 3k, 5k, and 10k. No less than 15 states were represented. There were would be plenty more if I had dug deeper or counted doubles in come states (Fisher and Ritz) for example in Michigan. Throw in Hocker-IN, Rheinhardt-FL, Solinsky-WI, Tebo-NM, Goucher-CO. Almost all these runner have PR's faster than NP number 1 guy, be it the mile or two mile. So they wouldn't have any problem making the top seven. Thats 20 states already and that's after a 30 sec google search. I'm sure there are way more states if you care to do the work. Maybe a better question is could NP beat an all CA team?
Fernandez, Jeff Nelson, Meb, Marc Davis, Cooper Teare, Ryan Hall.......whoever else you want to throw in.
All-CA team wins handily. But kudos to NP for making that a serious question.
how do you figure they win handily
freekiprop wrote:
birdbeard wrote:
All-CA team wins handily. But kudos to NP for making that a serious question.
how do you figure they win handily
I don't know about handily, but the CA team is deeper. Here are some of the possible team members based on 3200 times. Yes, I know it's XC but it's so difficult to compare courses and times.
8:31.42c -German Fernandez (Riverbank-SJ) 2008 Nike Outdoor Nationals
8:33.4c -Jeff Nelson (Burbank-SS) 1979 (ran 8:36.3 for two miles)
8:41.0c -Eric Reynolds (Camarillo-SS) 1983 (ran 8:44.0 for two miles)
8:41.46 -Cooper Teare (St Joseph Notre Dame, Alameda-NC) 2017
8:42.2c -Thom Hunt (Patrick Henry, San Diego-SD) 1976 (ran 8:45.2 for 2 miles)
8:43.0c -Ralph Serna (Loara, Anaheim-SS) 1975 (ran 8:46.0 for two miles)
8:43.6c -Rich Kimball (DeLaSalle, Concord-NC) 1974 (ran 8:46.6 for two miles)
8:43.27c -A.J. Acosta (El Camino, Oceanside-SD) 2006 Nike Outdoor Nationals (ran 8:46.32 for 2M)
8:44.97 -Eric Mastalir (Jesuit, Carmichael-SJ) 1986
8:45.8c *Curtis Beck (Santa Monica-SS) 1972 (ran 8:48.8 for two miles)
Notes:
Kimball ran his time as part of a double when he went 4:06.6 (1M) only 70 minutes later. He was also the World Junior XC champion.
Thom Hunt was also a World JR XC champ
Others?
Marc Davis – FL Champ, beating Todd Williams and Kennedy (14:38, 2nd fastest all-time at Balboa)
Who else am I missing?
This list still leaves off FL champs Jay Marden, Matt Giusto, Bryan Dameworth, Louie Quintana, Chad Hall and NXN champ Liam Anderson.
While I do see where youre coming from about the overall depth in the 3200 times of the all CA team, dont you think its at least a little bit unfair considering that those times were ran by guys that had full senior outdoor seasons to set fast pr's in?
Nico didnt run the 3200 as a senior because of covid, he may very well have beaten fernandez. Jace might've been sub 8:40 if he'd had Arcadia. (Ok, maybe that one's wishful thinking) Colin and Appleford havent even had their senior seasons yet, who knows how far under 8:40 Colin will be and how far under 8:50 Appleford will be.
I think this question will have even another layer of depth added if I were to ask again next year, when the twins and Aaron are seniors. They will all probably be faster than their older brothers were, and I doubt theres any team, even a CA all-stars team that can beat a team who's 5th man is Colin Sahlman, the national XC 5k and 3 mile record holder...
Jonathan Commentor wrote:
While I do see where youre coming from about the overall depth in the 3200 times of the all CA team, dont you think its at least a little bit unfair considering that those times were ran by guys that had full senior outdoor seasons to set fast pr's in?
Nico didnt run the 3200 as a senior because of covid, he may very well have beaten fernandez. Jace might've been sub 8:40 if he'd had Arcadia. (Ok, maybe that one's wishful thinking) Colin and Appleford havent even had their senior seasons yet, who knows how far under 8:40 Colin will be and how far under 8:50 Appleford will be.
I think this question will have even another layer of depth added if I were to ask again next year, when the twins and Aaron are seniors. They will all probably be faster than their older brothers were, and I doubt theres any team, even a CA all-stars team that can beat a team who's 5th man is Colin Sahlman, the national XC 5k and 3 mile record holder...
Sure, we can revisit this a year from now and it might be very different. But it's also not fair to project times for the younger NP guys times that they have not yet run. In the case of Nico, he went through 3200 of his 5K record attempt in 8:43 so I don't think it's a stretch to think he was in low 8:30s shape at the time. And he has the 7:56.
Leo may go sub 8:30 next year or he might not get any faster. The same for the others. We can't see the future. It's still pretty amazing to think about how competitive NP could be against an all-time team from the deepest state in the country,
Not trying to be negative. But I have to wonder, how good are Lex and Leo individually. For example, what if one of them ran by themselves at nationals and didn't have the other twin/Sahlman there to push them. Could Leo or Lex have dominated the field on their own?
Obviously they are good enough to win. But it's a different situation when the guys you always run in a pack with are not there. Just one of those things I wonder.
freekiprop wrote:
birdbeard wrote:
All-CA team wins handily. But kudos to NP for making that a serious question.
how do you figure they win handily
It was a trick question. The All-CA team IS newbury park....plus german fernandez lol.
the obsession with Newbury park is so ridiculously stupid, three of them are brothers.
also it's not like there haven't been top teams in the past, FM did this year after year after year.
Let's see their long term success.
4:59 wrote:
Bower Man wrote:
I don't think you realize how many states haven't even had a guy break 9.
I just looked at the all time top ten( just the top ten) high school lists for the mile, two mile, 3k, 5k, and 10k. No less than 15 states were represented. There were would be plenty more if I had dug deeper or counted doubles in come states (Fisher and Ritz) for example in Michigan. Throw in Hocker-IN, Rheinhardt-FL, Solinsky-WI, Tebo-NM, Goucher-CO. Almost all these runner have PR's faster than NP number 1 guy, be it the mile or two mile. So they wouldn't have any problem making the top seven. Thats 20 states already and that's after a 30 sec google search. I'm sure there are way more states if you care to do the work. Maybe a better question is could NP beat an all CA team?
Fernandez, Jeff Nelson, Meb, Marc Davis, Cooper Teare, Ryan Hall.......whoever else you want to throw in.
It’s amazing that we have a team so damn good on our hands that we literally have to cherry pick names from the list of all time greats in order to find people who could have a spot on their varsity team.
Their current team would beat an FM all-star team.
I know this is probably some oldhead troll,but I'll bite anyway and give this a response because I feel this needs a response.
With all due respect to FM. They were an amaxing program, what their girls team did at NXN was unbelievable.
But they weren't even on the same plane of existance as NP.
2010 FM at NXN, the previous 'goat xc team' went 2,4,6,16,29 in a national field 2/3rds the size of Runninglane with only 45 individually qualifying competitors compared to RunningLane's 100. FM's fastest girl in that race was 34, 34 WHOLE SECONDS off of the NXN girl's course record at the time. Their fastest girl.
NP went 1,2,3,6,42 in an already mentioned much more stacked field. They had 3 runners not only break the course record, but the NATIONAL XC RECORD. (I know youre probably the kind of old-head guy to claim the course was short, it wasn't. Its been measured countless times.) They averaged, AVERAGED 4 seconds off of the previous NATIONAL RECORD. Again, contrast that to FM's fastest girl being 34 seconds off of the course record of the time.
Forget the national XC record BS, you can't compare XC courses, even the same course year to year can differ by a good amount.
Then throw in the shoe technology these guys have and.......
4 of their guys wore traditional XC shoes in that race. Forget the time if you want. They went 1-2-3.