Jacob Ingebrigtsen wins Euro cross, 30:15, Julien Wanders 63rd, 33:13

hill and dale wrote:

And so is the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world:

Cheruiyot

Kerr

Mcsweyn

Wightman

Hoare

Cheptegei

Ahmed

Kimeli

Knight

Katir

It won’t change your mind, but at least you’ll see that the majority of the world’s top 15/5 guys are not running xc this year. Only a select few like JI and Kiplimo.

Mohamed Katir returns to competition with a win in the Jean Bouin

Times for the 10 Km race:

International male category

1. Mohamed Katir 0:29:44

2. Merhawi Mebrahtu 0:29:46

3. Santiago Catrofe 0:30:15

4. Carlos Diaz 0:30:21

Following Wanders on Strava for a few years you get some insight in his training.

To me it seems like his high volume is done at a too fast pace, always 4.00/km. He rather needs more volume at threshold - maybe 3-4 sessions a week and just recovery in between at 4.30-5.00.

Now it’s high volume , one threshold run a week and one really hard vo2max session.

And so multiple meaningless runs at 4.00. He should go for maybe 50-70 km a week at threshold.’ And just recovery in between, like Ingebrigtsen

Julien had a problem in the liver after one km in the race, and after few minutes had to stop for 30 seconds ad to jog few minutes before starting running again, since he wanted to finish the race.

He had the opportunity to verify his body efficiency one week ago, running in Geneve the road race called "Escalade" of 7.5 km, won by his teammate in training Boniface Kibiwott, who bettered the race record that Julien himself did in 2019. His shape is still far from the best, but in the last two months it seems he solved the problems he had during all the season (calves, hip rotation, continuous pain in one foot after a strong sprain in February, understimated, that didn't allow him to run with a correct balance creating problems in muscles and tendons).

Now, it's finally possible to have normal training, because the body can answer to some stimulus.

About his training, when you write " his high volume is done at too fast pace, always 4'/km", clearly you don't have any idea of what "fast pace" means for athletes running 27'13" and 59'13".

Do you think that for an athlete able running 21 km at 2'48" pace, 4' is "fast" ?

And, also, his goal is now the marathon, that we have to build step by step for being ready to run fast in 2024.

We can discuss again his training in April, when we have to build something different it's normal to meet problems, but I'm happy his body is finally ok

Jo72 wrote:

Here's a private video that gives a much noisier and better? impression of the crowds than the EA streams (of course less from the actual races)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bH0rthFAQ0

Thanks for the video. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

Here in the U.S., we have the two high school championships, and the NCAAs that are popular and followed by the distance fans. However, our USATF XC championships (be it the club race or the 'individual' one) does not rank as an important event on the pro's calendar. If 'they' would put some decent prize money into it, it would start to be better attended.

As Canova says, 4' for for an athlete of his level is really easy, a rhythm obtained by adding 70" from the rhythm 10 km already is relaxing, for wanders would be 3'53"30 and he goes 4'...

Do you know precisely that Ingebrigtsen does only training at the threshold (value around 104.7% of intensity for a scale of Gigliotti) (3-4 per week) and in the easy days runs at 5' per km ???

Kobbs Hessler wrote:

Congrats on being the first person in history to misspell Jakob's first name while correctly spelling his last name. And can we talk about the two runners from Gibralter in their late 40s??? Wtf. Clearly cross country needs some basic standards so decrepit geriatrics can't finish over two miles behind the winner in a six mile race.

Lol: I plead guilty to the infraction of misspelling Jakob’s first name. I also plead guilty to having misspelt Julien’s first name in the past, calling him “Julian” with an “a.”

Back to the main theme - and it’s good to hear from Renato, that Julien’s disappointing run was due to a liver problem and not representative of his current form so we may see him back in the near future. , I was surprised to learn from Canova that Julien’s marathon debut might not take place until 2024 when I originally thought it would take place at the end of 2021.

It also makes perfect sense what Canova says about Julien’s easy pace being 4 mins per kilometer for someone who can run the half marathon at 2:48 per km pace. Having said that, legend holds it that Julien has never found it comfortable to run “slowly.” Those five minutes per kilometer (5 mins/km) afternoon runs that some of the Kenyan elites do - I do not think would be Julien’s cup of tea.

Jacob has said in a podcast that his easy runs is around 3'45-4'00, but that he sometimes "forget" to hold an easy pace such that he sometimes run 3'20 as parts of his easy runs... He also often up the pace when he's bored and just want to get finished with the easy run.

Imagine being that good...

He had a liver problem yesterday but today his body is finally okay?

What am I missing?

Knutsen1 wrote:

Jacob has said in a podcast that his easy runs is around 3'45-4'00, but that he sometimes "forget" to hold an easy pace such that he sometimes run 3'20 as parts of his easy runs... He also often up the pace when he's bored and just want to get finished with the easy run.

Imagine being that good...

Jakob does not have a 1000 m track time on his CV but I’m guessing he would’ve been at least around 214 or 215.

Based on this, running 3:45-4:00 would be easy cruise, one might think.

Here is the all-time list for 1000m.

1 2:11.96 Noah NGENY 02 NOV 1978 KEN KEN 1 Rieti (ITA) 05 SEP 1999 1253

2 2:12.18 Sebastian COE 29 SEP 1956 GBR GBR 1 Oslo (NOR) 11 JUL 1981 1248

3 2:12.88 Steve CRAM 14 OCT 1960 GBR GBR 1 Gateshead (GBR) 09 AUG 1985 1232

4 2:13.08 Taoufik MAKHLOUFI 29 APR 1988 ALG ALG 1 Nancy (FRA) 01 JUL 2015 1227

5 2:13.49 Ayanleh SOULEIMAN 03 DEC 1992 DJI DJI 1 Stade Olympique de la Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 25 AUG 2016 1218

6 2:13.56 Kennedy KIMWETICH 1973 KEN KEN 2 Nice (FRA) 17 JUL 1999 1216

7 2:13.62 Abubaker KAKI 21 JUN 1989 SUD SUD 1 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 03 JUL 2010 1215

8 2:13.73 Noureddine MORCELI 28 FEB 1970 ALG ALG 1 Villeneuve d'Ascq (FRA) 02 JUL 1993 1212

9 2:13.89 Robert BIWOTT 28 JAN 1996 KEN KEN 2 Stade Olympique de la Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 25 AUG 2016 1209

10 2:13.9h Rick WOHLHUTER 23 DEC 1948 USA USA 1 Oslo (NOR) 30 JUL 1974

By the way, there’s a guy on this thread who doesn’t particularly like the fact that Jakob’s name is sometimes misspelled”Jacob.” Just saying.....

Very good to hear direct from you Coach rather than assumptions from those with less knowledge !

Ghost pliz reread Renato's post he does not say the debut will be 2024 he says to run very fast in 2024 (Olympics) clearly he will run marathon before that , probably by mid 2022 I guess

carmine9 wrote:

He had a liver problem yesterday but today his body is finally okay?

What am I missing?

You’re not missing anything but when people from western countries or who were brought up in western developed countries move to places like Kenya and stay there for a long time, they often develop some issues with their health either short term and often times long-term. I’m not saying this is the case for Wanders, but we do know that he suffered a case of pneumonia last March and April 2021 and that he may have had other issues on and off during the past few years.

I also know that Emil Milan, the young elite Swedish distance runner, who elected domicile in Kenya for the past year, also developed health problems this past year in Kenya. I think he may have suffered from COVID-19 also (almost asymptomatic) but that is not confirmed.

The Robertson brothers, two elite distance runners from New Zealand, who have been living in Kenya for the past 10 years (sometimes Ethiopia), also do not seem to be running so well any more, and have aged somewhat pre-maturely.

Jacob Ollsen wrote:

Ghost pliz reread Renato's post he does not say the debut will be 2024 he says to run very fast in 2024 (Olympics) clearly he will run marathon before that , probably by mid 2022 I guess

Oops, sorry for my misreading this, and I stand corrected....

Wanders’s run in Geneva, one week before Euro cross.

1. Kibiwott Boniface 1993 KEN-Kenya 6.38,3 1. 7.03,9 1. 6.52,0 1. 20.34,2 Finish (5)

2. Kibiwott Kangogo Mark 1989 KEN-Kenya 6.49,3 3. 7.13,7 2. 7.01,7 3. 21.04,7 Finish +30,5 (12)

3. Belhadj Mehdi 1995 F-France 6.47,5 2. 7.26,2 5. 7.01,1 2. 21.14,8 Finish +40,6 (3)

4. Wanders Julien 1996 CH-Suisse 6.51,1 5. 7.22,3 3. 7.03,3 5. 21.16,7 Finish +42,5 (1)

5. Kipkosgei Bowen Moses 1991 KEN-Kenya 6.49,9 4. 7.23,0 4. 7.10,8 8. 21.23,7 Finish +49,5 (13)

6. Le Guen Morgan 1993 Stade Genève Athléti.. 6.55,9 8. 7.26,7 6. 7.05,9 7. 21.28,5 Finish +54,3 (26)

7. Chahdi Hassan 1989 F-France 6.59,8 11. 7.28,0 8. 7.02,6 4. 21.30,4 Finish +56,2 (6)

8. Hadorn Joey 1997 CH-Suisse 7.00,2 12. 7.28,2 9. 7.03,3 5. 21.31,7 Finish +57,5 (58)

9. Abraham Tadesse 1982 LC USTER 6.56,6 9. 7.27,7 7. 7.22,9 15. 21.47,2 Finish +1.13,0 (2)

10. Kipkorir Mutai John 1987 KEN-Kenya 6.58,5 10. 7.29,9 10. 7.20,8 14. 21.49,2 Finish +1.15,0 (10

Ghost1 wrote:

carmine9 wrote:

He had a liver problem yesterday but today his body is finally okay?

What am I missing?

You’re not missing anything but when people from western countries or who were brought up in western developed countries move to places like Kenya and stay there for a long time, they often develop some issues with their health either short term and often times long-term. I’m not saying this is the case for Wanders, but we do know that he suffered a case of pneumonia last March and April 2021 and that he may have had other issues on and off during the past few years.

So people in western developed countries never suffer from pneumonia or get liver issues? Or you'd rather generalise with a sample of four, three of whom are so-so "elite" runners?

Apparently you have to go to Kenya to get Covid as you can't get it in western developed countries -- the same countries it's ravaged most in the last two years. Smh.

How can Julian Wonders run so badly? I have seen some of His videos n THE workouts seem great. Obviously he has run some pretty fast races but he also runs bad a lot of Times. Strange. In the other hand, Jakob never seem to have bad days. Lol. Thats also strange but for other reasons. I guess Europe is too small for a real viking. We are born to conquer.

Dimitry wrote:

As Canova says, 4' for for an athlete of his level is really easy, a rhythm obtained by adding 70" from the rhythm 10 km already is relaxing, for wanders would be 3'53"30 and he goes 4'...

Do you know precisely that Ingebrigtsen does only training at the threshold (value around 104.7% of intensity for a scale of Gigliotti) (3-4 per week) and in the easy days runs at 5' per km ???

That's incorrect. The toughest session they do is the short fast hill reps, 200m long. I forget how many they do but that session spikes the lactate levels the most in their training.

2x10x200m hills