Could this be the first time in history where we have multiple runners from the same team break 4 in the mile? I think they're running at that level for sure. Seems a bit more like a strength based program than speed but they have had some kicks in the past too. 3 from the same team sub 4 mile would rock the world.
Yes. In addition, they will have 5 guys go sub 9. There used to be years when one or two guys in the nation did that.
iyfkfh wrote:
Ritz’s HS times were 4:05.9 (1600m), 8:41.1 (3200) and 13:44.7 (5000m).
Colin already ran 4:03.5 (1600m) and 8:43.4 (3200m) as a junior. So already faster than Ritz at 1600m and only 2s slower than Ritz at 3200m. Colin improved since last spring, so I believe that he is already better than Ritz was in HS.
It is painful to watch these milesplit no names and others without a clue talk about Ritz and compare him to Newbury Park runners.
Rits ran his 4:05.9/8:41.1 as a junior. He ran World XC as a senior, proceeded to nearly tie his junior year marks, run 13:44.1, .1 off Lindgren's then ~35 year old record but Webb with his 3:53 mile and 3:37-38s at USATF stole the show.
I like Newbury Park and support them but they have super shoes as well as each other to train with. Dathan was iconic, NP a great team. Dathan had Jason Hartman as a frosh-soph by chance only. NP has transfers.
It's a different regime and a different era. Might be hard for youngins to understand. Ritz was like the second coming of Pre and Lindgren.
Not Affiliated With Newbury Park wrote:
But Wejo just said that we have seen nothing to indicate that they are better. Nothing is a word that has meaning. Seeing nothing to indicate it would be like them having run 14:30 last week and having 3200 PRs of 8:55. So yes, we have seen some evidence that they are better.
I think that we have seen plenty of evidence that they are faster than Ritz and some evidence that they are (or may be) better than Fernandez and LV.
Ritz got 3rd in world junior cross country.
Something even Jakob I could not accomplish
Ritz would’ve run 13:45 at RunningLane with the new shoes.
No. If they all go sub 13, sub 60 and sub 2:08, then I will concede that they are better than Ritz.
Ritz ran in a different era. He would benefit immensely from better training, better courses, better competition, better shoes, better training partners. Ritz was head and shoulders above EVERONE, including some scrub who would later run 3:46 in the mile, and this other dude who ran a 2:04xx marathon in Boston. Come on, do you really think that Newberry park is that good?
This is starting to seem like the Lebron/Jordan goat argument.
Old timers are Jordan. Youngsters who are too young to remember Jordan playing are 100% Bron.
It's hilarious.
Four of the NP guys wore traditional XC spikes. Are you saying that they and their coach erred by not having them wear track spikes? You should let them know that they would have gone sub 14 with different shoes.
Not Affiliated With Newbury Park wrote:
Four of the NP guys wore traditional XC spikes. Are you saying that they and their coach erred by not having them wear track spikes? You should let them know that they would have gone sub 14 with different shoes.
On a 3 mile course that was steamrolled? Sure.
You are free to look at the race picture yourself but most the people on Letsrun hate facts when they can stick with opinions instead. I just looked again. Actually, 5 are wearing the Vic 5 XC and 2 are in Dragonflies.
ligma wrote:
If the newbury park trio all go under 8:30 in the 3200 this spring, will you finally agree they are better than
Ritz? If not, why?
Maybe one of them goes under 8:25 or dare I say 8:20 in perfect conditions. Or am I just dreaming because we just witnessed such an incredible XC season? The talent is mouthwatering. I think they can go sub 8:30 at least.
Also, all 3 of them were under 4:10 last year if I remember correctly with Sahlman being like low 4:0x
Being better than Ritz on the track is MUCH different than being better in xc. Also I'd need to see 13:44 out of one of them.
Ok, so the NP guys can’t do anything to be better than Ritz.
That was proven by Kevin Sullivan.
Hough ran 14:49 last year on the course that Ritz ran his record of 14:10. (Remember Hough’s 3200 PB was 9:27 in 2020)
Since Hough ran 14:10 at Running Lane this year (7s slower than Colin), it proves that the 14:03 is meaningless and that Ritz is much superior. (Hough’s 3200 PB improved to 8:56 this year)
Got it.
Logical
Not Affiliated With Newbury Park wrote:
Well yes. They were slower at XC than NP. And NP guys will run much faster at 3200 than Hall or Webb did.
A guy that ran 3:53 who was also good in XC could have run 8:25 for 2 miles. You can't take every PR at face value. Nico's 2:06 is the extreme example.
The comparisons in this thread should be for the 2-mile instead of the 3200. It's the distance that Nelson, Fernandez, LV and other HS legends ran.
ligma wrote:
If the newbury park trio all go under 8:30 in the 3200 this spring, will you finally agree they are better than
Ritz? If not, why?
Maybe one of them goes under 8:25 or dare I say 8:20 in perfect conditions. Or am I just dreaming because we just witnessed such an incredible XC season? The talent is mouthwatering. I think they can go sub 8:30 at least.
Also, all 3 of them were under 4:10 last year if I remember correctly with Sahlman being like low 4:0x
That's a big if.
Also, you have to put some parameters on this. Better overall or just as high schoolers? Certainly not overall. Not yet. He had the American record in the 5,000. Let them do that, then I'd consider. The shoes have to factor into the equation.
And no one has mentioned that Craig Virgin ran 12th at AAU 6 mile XC senior nationals during his senior year. This was back when the big names ran it.
Oh and Bekele was one of the two guys who beat RItz at World XC that year.
it is time wrote:
ligma wrote:
If the newbury park trio all go under 8:30 in the 3200 this spring, will you finally agree they are better than
Ritz? If not, why?
Maybe one of them goes under 8:25 or dare I say 8:20 in perfect conditions. Or am I just dreaming because we just witnessed such an incredible XC season? The talent is mouthwatering. I think they can go sub 8:30 at least.
Also, all 3 of them were under 4:10 last year if I remember correctly with Sahlman being like low 4:0x
Being better than Ritz on the track is MUCH different than being better in xc. Also I'd need to see 13:44 out of one of them.
It's not different at all. If the NP guys run 13:44 on the track, it will indicate they are every bit as good as Ritz in HS XC.
Better as High Schoolers. Nobody would claim that somebody who runs 8:30 for 2 miles is superior to somebody who runs 7:39 for 3000. People on this site jump back and forth too much without realizing how dumb it is. The NP guys are the best high school runners ever but some people try to compare them to the D3 runners by comparing their high school versions which is illogical. Some people say that NP guys aren't as good as Ritz or Hall due to their 5k and 1/2 marathon times which is also dumb. The comparison is of high school runners. If we did the same for girls, we would say that Tuohy is nowhere as good as Schweizer because Schweizer has run 8:25 and 14:26. HS Tuohy was better than HS Schweizer.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
it is time wrote:
Being better than Ritz on the track is MUCH different than being better in xc. Also I'd need to see 13:44 out of one of them.
It's not different at all. If the NP guys run 13:44 on the track, it will indicate they are every bit as good as Ritz in HS XC.
so Rupp was better at high school XC than Ritz because he ran a faster track 5k? so Matt Withrow who beat Rupp at Footlocker in high school would be the XC GOAT?