Is The RunningLane Course 5K? Or Is It Short?

Course conditions have changed at Balboa since Reina, he's not the goat

another oldie wrote:

Iamspeed wrote:

The course is super flat, it has one hill but the last mile has a net downhill, which is huge for Newburys fast finishers. If you think about the fact that they ran sub 13:40 at the beginning of the season, it's not that hard to understand. It's the first meet they had competition

I would contend none of them have 5k PR 13:40 or faster.

Woodbridge is 3M. 13:40 for 3M is approx 14:10-12 for 5k. If they peaked for this meet it isn’t crazy they would run a bit faster at the end of the year than they did in September

birdbeard wrote:

another oldie wrote:

I would contend none of them have 5k PR 13:40 or faster.

Woodbridge is 3M. 13:40 for 3M is approx 14:10-12 for 5k. If they peaked for this meet it isn’t crazy they would run a bit faster at the end of the year than they did in September

Yes, thank you

wejo wrote:

polkmni wrote:

The course is not super flat. It isn't crazy hilly, but there is definitely some undulation. The low point to the high point on the course is about 50 feet

I stand corrected. Wonder if the surface is harder than most XC courses?

This explains how much better Ritz's 14:10 was:

https://twitter.com/ksully330/status/1467210186435842051?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1467210186435842051%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.letsrun.com%2Fwp-admin%2Fpost.php%3Fpost%3D262589action%3Deditclassic-editorclassic-editor__forget

to be fair i think riley took one of ritzs course records somewhere else earlier this season

wejo wrote:

The course is super flat. It's rare for the best in the country to run on such a cross country course. Usually cross country courses have hills, etc.

Not crazy hill, but not super flat

They were literally steamrolling the course yesterday.

First, I just want to say this race was crazy. Second, GPS cannot be trusted.

And finally 5000m = 3.107 miles

Ritz also has the highest speed rating ever recorded. 214. Sahlman was only a 203 today.

nprunner74 wrote:

This course has been wheeled to death. It’s a real 5k. We live in a town with the highest per capita population of engineers. We know how to measure an build things. I know that seems shocking.

Why is wheeling relevant? Real engineers know that there are several more accurate ways of measuring a course. Properly tensioned steel tape and fat guy on a bike with a properly calibrated Jones counter come to mind immediately.

high school xc coach wrote:

Ritz also has the highest speed rating ever recorded. 214. Sahlman was only a 203 today.

how are speed ratings calculated? Aidan ross got a 192 for a 14:47 this year, shattered course record by 18 seconds. Ryan oosting got a 196 for a 15:08 on the same course 3 years ago. Conditions were similar, both ran solo, and ross is a junior if that means anything

The average of 10 gps readings I have seen is 3.12 that is very close to the average you would see on a wheeled course without major turns. I believe it is as legit a 5k as any other course out there.

Ritz was good, but not infinitely so. He may have won this race today but he would not have dropped any of these three guys. It would have been close.

high school xc coach wrote:

Ritz also has the highest speed rating ever recorded. 214. Sahlman was only a 203 today.

and on the girls side of things, the highest ever is a 16:24 at the Disney world footlocker?? Is that to suggest that course is as hard as holmdel (Tuohy 16:21--177) or significantly harder than ocean state (Tuohy 16:06--176)

high school bum wrote:

They were literally steamrolling the course yesterday.

I saw that on their Instagram. Really pulling out all the stops for the fast times they ended up getting.

it is based on a comparison to the competition in the race and previous speed ratings of the competitors.

If I recall, I think the reason why Trotter's speed rating is such an outlier, is because it was a very, very hot day, and she for whatever reason was not affected by the heat, and all the other competitors were. So her time was ridiculously better than a whole bunch of other girls who already had high speed ratings established.

It would be like if a race was held at altitude, and a kenyan beat a few guys he is typically the same as by 7 seconds, because he is the only one acclimated to the altitude. those other guys will still get there normal speed ratings, but the kenyan will have a rating that appears out of this world.

how do speed ratings work wrote:

high school xc coach wrote:

Ritz also has the highest speed rating ever recorded. 214. Sahlman was only a 203 today.

how are speed ratings calculated? Aidan ross got a 192 for a 14:47 this year, shattered course record by 18 seconds. Ryan oosting got a 196 for a 15:08 on the same course 3 years ago. Conditions were similar, both ran solo, and ross is a junior if that means anything

What course and race are we talking about here?

Temperature, wind conditions, and ground conditions all similar?

high school xc coach wrote:

it is based on a comparison to the competition in the race and previous speed ratings of the competitors.

If I recall, I think the reason why Trotter's speed rating is such an outlier, is because it was a very, very hot day, and she for whatever reason was not affected by the heat, and all the other competitors were. So her time was ridiculously better than a whole bunch of other girls who already had high speed ratings established.

It would be like if a race was held at altitude, and a kenyan beat a few guys he is typically the same as by 7 seconds, because he is the only one acclimated to the altitude. those other guys will still get there normal speed ratings, but the kenyan will have a rating that appears out of this world.

I agree - I think that was an outlier because Trotter was from CA, half the field were from (the cold) Midwest and Northeast and got killed by the hot humid weather in December, and for whatever reason all of the South girls ran poorly that day. So Trotter won by a lot and looked like something superhuman in comparison to the rest.

But before trashing the concept of speed ratings, take a look at Bill Meylan's predictions for the Runninglane Team competition vs what happened. He pretty much called the 2 winning scores on the nose.

http://www.tullyrunners.com/XC2021/RunningLaneProject2021.htm

I am a huge believer in speed ratings. I am a new york guy, so every race my kids run goes in the database. I look at the ratings every week, and after awhile you can pretty much guess a speed rating before he posts them just by looking at the times of all the kids in the race. This is if you are familiar with what those kids typically run. Kids will always have up and down days, but you find that the majority finish where they should compared to their competitors.

The trotter situation is a one of a kind outlier over a 20 year period.

wejo wrote:

The course is super flat. It's rare for the best in the country to run on such a cross country course. Usually cross country courses have hills, etc.

Your journalism is insufferable.

The headline states that all 3 broke Ritz's 5k 'national record.'

Please show me where this is officially recognized as a national record, as ALL courses are different. What officiating body recognizes variable cross country courses as comparable?? And then you recognize in the article that, in fact, all courses are different. That is why there are course records.

But shout from the highest mountains and post headlines that this a national record.