Newbury Park - is it the coach or the kids?

KnotRocketSciencePeople wrote:

When anyone is THAT young, as in a High School freshman, it's 95++++% talent if not more.

So teaching new and young runners how to train, how to pace, what to eat, how to properly hydrate, and how to deal with physical and mental stress wouldn't help a freshman's performance?

It's nothing against the coach, but he's not the only HS Coach in America having runners do the type of training that they do---he's just got the talent to have the better times. He certainly has more talent than most, but he is probably putting in way more time into his coaching than most. I think I do a lot, but a month with his kids at altitude is a huge commitment that most high school coaches simply could not make.

No one runs that fast without being extremely gifted in long distance running, no one.

Agreed. But I know of no Americans that have ever put up those times with out some training and guidance/coaching. no one!

NOT a diss on the coach, but if he took 7 freshman guys on an average team in this country, he would NOT have end results like he does now...zero chance of that. Agreed. He has way better than average talent in that one class, but has has seen great progress with the majority of his guys and girls. Much more than the average programs and even more than the best programs in California in what, four years?

My high school coach was a State Champion when he ran in High School and he could not get 7 better than average freshman to produce results like that by their sophomore year let alone senior year! It's talent people.

No other coach has done waht he has done - so, again, GREAT COACH and AMAZINGLY talented group of kids that seem to love their coach and work very hard. Why is that so hard to deal with?

Ghost of Ward Cleaver wrote:

KnotRocketSciencePeople wrote:

When anyone is THAT young, as in a High School freshman, it's 95++++% talent if not more.

So teaching new and young runners how to train, how to pace, what to eat, how to properly hydrate, and how to deal with physical and mental stress wouldn't help a freshman's performance?

You completely lied on that one. No one ever said it wouldn't help their performance. The topic is HOW the runners on NP are running so fast. No, it wouldn't get them that fast.

It's nothing against the coach, but he's not the only HS Coach in America having runners do the type of training that they do---he's just got the talent to have the better times. He certainly has more talent than most, but he is probably putting in way more time into his coaching than most. I think I do a lot, but a month with his kids at altitude is a huge commitment that most high school coaches simply could not make.

Doesn't matter how much time he puts in with them. You have the ability to do the work or you don't. That's talent.

No one runs that fast without being extremely gifted in long distance running, no one.

Agreed. But I know of no Americans that have ever put up those times with out some training and guidance/coaching. no one!

Dathan Ritzenhein ran phenomenal times. His coach guided the other varsity runners as well. How come they weren't within a minute of him?

NOT a diss on the coach, but if he took 7 freshman guys on an average team in this country, he would NOT have end results like he does now...zero chance of that. Agreed. He has way better than average talent in that one class, but has has seen great progress with the majority of his guys and girls. Much more than the average programs and even more than the best programs in California in what, four years?

The progress that he's seen is not great, it's expected based on their talent. They are extremely talented. Breaking 9 minutes not half way thru high school, more than one runner on one team?

My high school coach was a State Champion when he ran in High School and he could not get 7 better than average freshman to produce results like that by their sophomore year let alone senior year! It's talent people.

No other coach has done waht he has done - so, again, GREAT COACH and AMAZINGLY talented group of kids that seem to love their coach and work very hard. Why is that so hard to deal with?

False. No other coach has had a group of runners THAT talented ever in the country, ever. How can any other coach do what he's done if they don't have that kind of talent to work with? They can't, period.

I think this is the post you wanted me to read and I responded above in bold.

KnotRocketSciencePeople wrote:

Ghost of Ward Cleaver wrote:

My opinion is false? Why did you think I was responding to you?

Never said you were responding to me, I said you read my post, which you did. Yes, your opinion is completely wrong.

Big amounts of both the coach and talent are the reason that they are running the times that they are?--that is false.

A tiny fraction of the coach and a LARGE fraction of the talent of 15-16 year old kids, that's why they are running so fast.

I'm lost on how anyone who runs at all doesn't understand how little coaching has on the outcome on high school runners versus their own raw natural talent at such young ages.

Ritzenhein was 2nd in the State his sophomore year losing to his senior teammate. First his junior and senior year. How come all of the other 5 runners on his team weren't breaking 15 minutes with such a great coach? They didn't have the talent, period.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

run fan 3357 wrote:

It's 100 percent the athletes, not the coach. Just about any coach could have gotten this group to run the same times. They are that talented.

Having such a poor freshman class in 2021 is a sign that Brosnan is full of crap. People say he's charismatic but where's the charisma in getting kids to come out for the team?

He literally has the best team in high school history but he still can't get kids to quit soccer for cross country. Pathetic that he can't build off of this to be decent when the genetic lottery graduates.

In regard to the OP's question, NP is successful because it has the most talented kids to be in one HS in history. Coaching 4 such runners is no different than just one. There is a wide range of effective training methods and all would generate similar results.

Why would a kid that ran 5:00 in 7th grade choose to play soccer? On the men's side, it's not a popular sport. It doesn't receive much attention in HS or college, MLS is far from being a major team sport and the men don't even qualify for the World Cup. It would be unlikely for the ultra talented NP park kids to choose to play in an invisible HS sport instead.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

coach wrote:

Many schools have potential champions and qualifiers walking through the halls. He gets them out, motivates them and helps them reach goals they never imagined. He's a great coach.

If I had the same kids I would have been lucky to get them down to 9:20 in the 2 mile , 4:20 in the mile and some sub 16:00 in 5k. These times are good and what many of us hope for. I would never pretend to have the vision, motivation and everything else it takes to take kids to the level they're at. Kudos to him, Soles, Aris, Kranick and the other greats.

If what you posted is true, you should be coaching a different sport. Do you have access to mile times run by kids in your feeder schools? When I was in middle school and even breaking 5:30 wasn't common. I'm about 100% confident there were no potential 9:00 guys walking through the halls at my H.S.

if you're an average coach and could only coach the NP kids to run 9:20, then 9:30 would be the new 9:00.

dustdevil wrote:

So what? Let's see how they develop in 3 years. If they improve he's great. If they don't...do what you guys are going to do. How many coaches have great talent and do nothing with it? Well he has it and no one can argue he has done something with it. I cannot think of to many high school elite coaches could do with what Brosnan is doing with this group of kids. Sorry but true. This post is great though. Letsrunners keyboard assassins evaluating the coach of the greatest HS team in history and not one of you have probably met the guy. Who cares if he said, "Can I get 4 guys under 8:30" or whatever. People gotta find a way to pick him apart. Well breaking news....if they don't run to their potential people will blame him. So he gets dismantled if they run great too? There's a lot of buttons to push for sub 8:30 to happen and he will be the one pushing them. My reading comprehension of that article understood his athletes want to be the best ever. Maybe that is the athlete's goal. Like it or not coaches have goals to and if that was his....so be it if he thinks it can be done.

Ghost of Ward Cleaver wrote:

dustdevil wrote:

So what? Let's see how they develop in 3 years. If they improve he's great. If they don't...do what you guys are going to do. How many coaches have great talent and do nothing with it? Well he has it and no one can argue he has done something with it. I cannot think of to many high school elite coaches could do with what Brosnan is doing with this group of kids. Sorry but true. This post is great though. Letsrunners keyboard assassins evaluating the coach of the greatest HS team in history and not one of you have probably met the guy. Who cares if he said, "Can I get 4 guys under 8:30" or whatever. People gotta find a way to pick him apart. Well breaking news....if they don't run to their potential people will blame him. So he gets dismantled if they run great too? There's a lot of buttons to push for sub 8:30 to happen and he will be the one pushing them. My reading comprehension of that article understood his athletes want to be the best ever. Maybe that is the athlete's goal. Like it or not coaches have goals to and if that was his....so be it if he thinks it can be done.

+1000!