Could Leo Young run a sub 14 on a certified XC 5k course?

TheSummerSoldier wrote:

I know.... times don't matter in XC and blah blah. But I think Ritz has the official HS XC 5k record at something like 14:07 or around there if memory serves me well. Please correct me at will. Still, Leo being a Junior now, I begin to wonder... could he drop a sub 14 5k in XC like on a course at Runninglane for instance? We recently saw the first girls sub 16. Is sub 14 for boys that far off in the future?

No he could not.

Wheelguy33 wrote:

Woodbridge was measured with a wheel by multiple coaches after it was measured by the meet director.

It's 2.85 miles

Fixed it for you.

the athlete "special" wrote:

Wheelguy33 wrote:

Woodbridge was measured with a wheel by multiple coaches after it was measured by the meet director.

It's 2.85 miles

Fixed it for you.

It’s funny that normally I see kids on Strava posting their runs but for some reason on that one they posted it as a manual entry. I wonder why?

In New York State we are not allowed to wear GPS during a race. Is this followed elsewhere? Coaches from other states, please comment on your state rules.

I tell my kids they can wear them until they are spoken to about it, but they have to keep it on the screen that only gives the clock time. I think it is good for them to be able to collect data during the race to look at after. Officials have also told us they are not directed to look for it.

The only obstacle is opposing coaches who might make an issue of it.

It’s a rule in CA except no one cares or follows it. Kids GPS every race and post it.

Tandy wrote:

Marty the thong wrote:

Few college guys can break 14 in XC. These guys are 8:40 two milers which puts them behind 100 college guys.

Never thought about this. Really think there are 100 x 8.05 3k guys in the ncaa?

I ran 7:58/3:59, but never broke 14.00. Sub 14 would be a tough ask for a hs’er on grass.

Maybe. But 10.7 wasn't tough for a professional on grass.

mud and hills wrote:

No offense, but Cali XC is faux XC.

Yeah that's why California schools never do well at NXN...oh wait, the last time that race happened CA teams went 1-2 in dominant fashion.

Wheelguy33 wrote:

Woodbridge was measured with a wheel by multiple coaches after it was measured by the meet director.

It's 3 miles

It’s certainly not 3 miles.

You think he dropped a 4:16 last mile on grass at the end of an XC race?

Agreed German was on a crazy level and in my opinion a little ahead of Nico. One thing is they do have 4 of them so it might be possible to get close or break German’s time which he ran solo, but 14:07 on that course is not likely. That would be other worldly.

No. If he can run it on a certified 5K XC course he should be able to do it on the track. Maybe next year if he keeps improving.

8:56 wrote:

Wheelguy33 wrote:

Woodbridge was measured with a wheel by multiple coaches after it was measured by the meet director.

It's 3 miles

It’s certainly not 3 miles.

You think he dropped a 4:16 last mile on grass at the end of an XC race?

The reported splits were something like 4:30, 4:50, 4:16. I saw where supposedly the 2 mile marker was off, so more likely 4:30, 4:40, 4:26.

TheSummerSoldier wrote:

U Really Think So? wrote:

No such thing as a certified XC course

I think everyone knows what I mean here.

My take is that there isn't a standard for XC, so someone could design a pancake flat course that is as basically as fast as a track (there are/were grass, dirt, cinder tracks that are barely slower than all-weather tracks) and certify the distance. That would be a joke to call XC though. Even the Woodward park course has a decent hill.

Contrast that with XC skiing, where a homologated course 5K long would need 150m to 210m total climb. Even so, times in skiing are also not even looked at except percent time back because snow conditions dictate speed.

TLDR: You might as well ask if he could run 5k on the road or track under 14.

FastTuohy wrote:

8:56 wrote:

It’s certainly not 3 miles.

You think he dropped a 4:16 last mile on grass at the end of an XC race?

The reported splits were something like 4:30, 4:50, 4:16. I saw where supposedly the 2 mile marker was off, so more likely 4:30, 4:40, 4:26.

So we are supposed to believe that the 2 mile marker was off but there is NO WAY the distance was short?

Now that I look at it, it would take 4:30-4:32-4:34 for normal splits which is 100 meters off.

U Really Think So? wrote:

FastTuohy wrote:

The reported splits were something like 4:30, 4:50, 4:16. I saw where supposedly the 2 mile marker was off, so more likely 4:30, 4:40, 4:26.

So we are supposed to believe that the 2 mile marker was off but there is NO WAY the distance was short?

The 2 mile mark was off. Look at the people who put it on strava and compare to the official splits. The GPS tracks are going to be a bit off, but everyone in the results had a slow second mile and fast third mile, while the GPS splits look more even.

Here's the 7th place guy:

Other people you can also check if you want:

race results with official splits:

U Really Think So? wrote:

FastTuohy wrote:

The reported splits were something like 4:30, 4:50, 4:16. I saw where supposedly the 2 mile marker was off, so more likely 4:30, 4:40, 4:26.

So we are supposed to believe that the 2 mile marker was off but there is NO WAY the distance was short?

I don't know. Just reporting what I saw. People are saying multiple coaches wheeled it. People are saying the 2 mile mark was off. People are saying it is short. Somebody is wrong. But the time is consistent with what Nico did - 8:40 in April, 13:39 in September. These guys did 8:43 in May, 13:40ish in September.

If you can’t get the 2 mile mark right, you probably also got the finish wrong.

FastTuohy wrote:

U Really Think So? wrote:

So we are supposed to believe that the 2 mile marker was off but there is NO WAY the distance was short?

I don't know. Just reporting what I saw. People are saying multiple coaches wheeled it. People are saying the 2 mile mark was off. People are saying it is short. Somebody is wrong. But the time is consistent with what Nico did - 8:40 in April, 13:39 in September. These guys did 8:43 in May, 13:40ish in September.

Coaches that have something to lose if they report it as "short" are the ones measuring it. What do you think they would say?

not that fast wrote:

If you can’t get the 2 mile mark right, you probably also got the finish wrong.

Why does it matter? It's cross country. It shouldn't be encouraged to be so time focused, because then you'll go down the road of road races where everyone is looking for the flattest, fastest courses, which is not what cross country should represent.

If you are so invested in this, why don't you try measuring it on Google Earth? Download the tracks to see if you can figure out the turn boundaries, overlay on the map, and zoom in and use the measure tool. I know if you are careful, you can measure a 400m track to within 1m that way, so you should be within 10-15m at 3 miles.