USATF will not let in Gonzaga's James Mwaura to Olympic Trials even though he ran 27:50 last night and Pat Tyson isn't happy.

Alexi Santana wrote:

This is dumb. Why does the registration deadline need to end before the qualifying window does?

The end of the registration/qualifying window was published as June 6 for the last couple of years. I asked USATF about the deadline in early 2020 when trying to set up a last-chance qualifying meet and they explained the series of steps that happen on their end following the Trials and how this backed them into the June 6 date. They have held to that date but recently extended the window to improve marks for athletes already registered.

This is correct. I don't know when they changed the deadline to update marks, but it had been June 6th, which was the same as the entry deadline. One day, without any kind of announcement that I saw, it became June 13th. I assume, with no evidence, that this was to accommodate the NCAA schedule. Without that change, you might have seen people going all out at regionals for qualifying times. So they changed the deadline to update times, but not the deadline to enter. So athletes still had to enter by June 6th, were able to declare starting on June 8th, but can update times through Sunday morning. This is probably why we are seeing some last chance meets pop up last minute that were not originally scheduled. It was supposed to be too late.

USATFisGarbage wrote:

I was not a 27:40 something 10,000m runner. I however ran under an old standard of 29:10 or something in the early 2000's. I was 5 seconds under the standard entry time if the field did not exceed size limit which it was well under. Myself and 2 other runners were under the mark with 29:05, 29:05, and a 29:07. They listed us as not qualified and took a 14:07 5,000m runner who got last in the race, a 29:14, and a 29:22 10,000m runner instead because they were Pro. I thought it was garbage a standard is a standard and there should be no loop holes. My guess is James Mwaura is either not a citizen or they are playing games in favor of someone else they want to make the team by eliminating competition.

This doesn't sound comparable. You squeeked under the standard whereas the runner mentioned in the original post is a contender for the Olympic team.

As mentioned though and unknown to my knowledge is Rupp in on the bubble they will sacrifice 1 or 2 potentials just so he can race and sadly that is 100% fact.

USATFisGarbage wrote:

As mentioned though and unknown to my knowledge is Rupp in on the bubble they will sacrifice 1 or 2 potentials just so he can race and sadly that is 100% fact.

Sadder, still is that Rupp has the option to DNS; not show up at the last second. That takes away a spot from potentials who are ready, willing to run, and faster.

Everyone who qualifies through the end of the last day (the 13th) should be automatically listed as qualified with entry based on paperwork being filled out within several days. There should be others entered as provisional, meaning they can prepare and show up and be ready to run to take the place of any DNSes. The point being that the fastest qualifiers run in the trials and the field is full.

Maybe I'm not understanding how this works. If a coach thinks their athlete might run a qualifying time sometime between June 9 and June 13, can't they register by the Jun 8 deadline, and then use the qualifying time from the June 9-13 window, right? If that's how it works, I guess I'm not really seeing the issue.

If you think you might qualify sometime before June 13, just register by the deadline and then try to qualify after. If you register and then don't qualify, so what.

TexasMilerDude1 wrote:

This kind of nonsense. Who the hell have you ever coached? Needing attention is a good name for you. Tyson is a great coach!

So he is poor at entering his athletes?

Or poor at seeing they have an opportunity?

Why didn't he enter him? No confidence in him?

The coach owns a lot of this. No matter how good he is, he screwed up.

just register wrote:

Maybe I'm not understanding how this works. If a coach thinks their athlete might run a qualifying time sometime between June 9 and June 13, can't they register by the Jun 8 deadline, and then use the qualifying time from the June 9-13 window, right? If that's how it works, I guess I'm not really seeing the issue..

This is a dumb way to do it. You have to register if you guess "might" qualify. If you guess right you might get in the race. If you guess wrong you are out.

The method should be everyone who runs a qualifying time before the end of the last day of qualifying is automatically registered and are give a few days to confirm they will run. But this does not stop Rupp style spot-takers who will DNS at the last second; taking away a spot in the trials. So, there should be provisional runners who get the benefit of all entered runners, and who are added to the starting line to take the spot of any DNSes. The point being, the race is filled with the fastest qualifiers who are ready to toe-the-line when the gun goes off.

luckylucky lucky wrote:

TexasMilerDude1 wrote:

This kind of nonsense. Who the hell have you ever coached? Needing attention is a good name for you. Tyson is a great coach!

So he is poor at entering his athletes?

Or poor at seeing they have an opportunity?

Why didn't he enter him? No confidence in him?

The coach owns a lot of this. No matter how good he is, he screwed up.

Good point. Next cycle I'll enter all of my athletes just in case someone runs a q time. That way I'm a good coach.

15_50 wrote:

luckylucky lucky wrote:

So he is poor at entering his athletes?

Or poor at seeing they have an opportunity?

Why didn't he enter him? No confidence in him?

The coach owns a lot of this. No matter how good he is, he screwed up.

Good point. Next cycle I'll enter all of my athletes just in case someone runs a q time. That way I'm a good coach.

That could get expensive if you coach a lot of athletes. Also, I know you were being sarcastic.

I think next time everyone on letsrun should register.

I’m 100% with James and Coach Tyson! I hope things change and they let this fit young man compete! James is fit and coming off a big PR in one of the greatest collegiate 10000m championships of all time! Add to that he has an interesting life story for the announcers to talk about during the competition.

Seems odd in our digital Internet era we can’t add someone to the start list. They should also make the field larger.

Good luck guys!

What is the rational the entry deadline earlier? I just don't see the need for it.

blamb61 wrote:

I think next time everyone on letsrun should register.

I hope in four years, when I’m 69 that I can still run 3 miles in 26:58. That time will sure look impressive when I register for the 10k.

When they extended the qualifying deadline, they could have easily extended the entry deadline also. They didn't. No way they didn't think about it, so the choice not to do that was definitely calculated. It seems like it would be easier to keep them the same too, so that declared athletes weren't updating their times after their declarations. One would hope that they had a good reason, but...? Maybe it was just to get a head start on meet management and credentialing? If entries start pouring in on Sunday maybe it's difficult to get everything ready by the start of trials, where this way, they can get a lot of it taken care of early and just wait for those last few results to roll in. That's a guess though.

So the coach is responsible for entering athletes and No athletes self-coached entered.

Why should the coach be the babysitter.

The craziest part is that the entry list features Mwaura’s Gonzaga teammate, Javier Muñoz Maines at an NT. Maybe Nike will let Maines in?

Odd entry given Mwaura was only 27 seconds away from the 28:00 standard going into Wednesday.

luckylucky lucky wrote:

TexasMilerDude1 wrote:

This kind of nonsense. Who the hell have you ever coached? Needing attention is a good name for you. Tyson is a great coach!

So he is poor at entering his athletes?

Or poor at seeing they have an opportunity?

Why didn't he enter him? No confidence in him?

The coach owns a lot of this. No matter how good he is, he screwed up.

Tyson has conceded it is his fault.

“Blame that one on me,” Tyson said. “We didn’t have him on the radar to improve by 37 seconds in what’s normally a strategic race. No one had ever broken 28 minutes in this meet before.”

heartfoundation wrote:

So the coach is responsible for entering athletes and No athletes self-coached entered.

Why should the coach be the babysitter.

Lesson for all athletes and their families - don't trust the coach. The coach has to earn his fees every day, which is no different than any other profession.