No. I say they are unrelated. That is why I stated that the average Letsrun poster who has no coaching credentials should not be advising elite athletes of what is better for them than what a high profile coach would. The profile of the average Letsrun poster is a former D3 runner at 14:59. They think that gives them the knowledge to advise elite athletes.
My understanding of NAU's training is that it still involves a lot of speedwork year round -- short 200-400 reps nearly each week. I do not believe the additional easy mileage will hurt him, and I think Smith will build him up to the mileage well.
I also don't think he's a pure middle distance runner. He ran something like 8:50 in a TT, right?
SDSU Aztecs have no endurance wrote:
No. I say they are unrelated. That is why I stated that the average Letsrun poster who has no coaching credentials should not be advising elite athletes of what is better for them than what a high profile coach would. The profile of the average Letsrun poster is a former D3 runner at 14:59. They think that gives them the knowledge to advise elite athletes.
the myth of the “high profile coach” is astounding to me. Rojo’s “i could coach evan jager” bit is funny but also not that far off the truth. this isn’t rocket science. most people could do a decent job at it if given the chance
TrackCoach wrote:
Heartless wrote:
NAU is perfect for a guy with immmense speed and great mechanics. I’m sure Warhurst is fine with his decision.
I disagree!
Schools competing for XC titles 'can be' death of a pure middle distance runner. Unfortunately a kid that can run a sub-4 mile is capable of contributing to a top ranked XC team right away, but because you can, does not mean you should. With that said, some middle distance runners benefit from high mileage programs, but most don't. If I was an NCAA coach with a stud 800/mile type kid, his freshman year, I would have him do some training with the XC team, perhaps some extra hill sprints, drills but no meets. Sophomore year, train with the XC team, run some meets, but no championships or 10Ks. Junior year, run a full XC season. This is a difficult thing for a coach to do becasue this kid is probably a XC low stick the day he shows up on campus.
Why? It is an 8k-10k race not a marathon. Running them isn't going to hurt him. If you want to argue he shouldn't train specifically for them? Sure. But there is zero reason why not to run them as part of his 1500m base work . Replace some 30 min tempo run with an 8k race and your are roughly in the same spot. No he probably shouldn't crank out 90+mile weeks right away but you don't need that for the 10k.
And what is the evidence that this kid is a pure middle distance 800/1500m guy versus 1500/5000m? It isn't like he has 1:48 to his name and his XC exploits while maybe not 3:57 range were pretty solid given how odd of year (i.e. we didn't see him in footlocker or nike, the Michigan state meet was odd but he did run faster than grant fisher did.) this was.
I woud also assume that he has talked to the coach about what his training should be like and the current coach agrees it is a sane plan
Really? There are hundreds of coaches in the NCAA who earn more than $100k per year. How many do a good job? Your statement is false because there are thousands coaching collegiately and most are not successful. But every Letsrun poster thinks it is easy.
Cocoa wrote:
the myth of the “high profile coach” is astounding to me. Rojo’s “i could coach evan jager” bit is funny but also not that far off the truth. this isn’t rocket science. most people could do a decent job at it if given the chance
The question is what is the difference between a decent job and an excellent one. If I coach Jager to an 8:10st, people would think I did a great job. But in reality I left like 10s on the table. Now if the elite coaches are consistently getting that 10s or if they just occasionally get lucky is hard to say. Maybe Webb is the WR holder if he stayed with michigan like Willis did. Maybe he never breaks 3:50.
Why you’re describing is a universal difference in training for most runners between high school and college. Geordie Beamish won a National Championship in the mile so I think Mike Smith knows what he’s doing.
birdbeard wrote:
My understanding of NAU's training is that it still involves a lot of speedwork year round -- short 200-400 reps nearly each week. I do not believe the additional easy mileage will hurt him, and I think Smith will build him up to the mileage well.
I also don't think he's a pure middle distance runner. He ran something like 8:50 in a TT, right?
Good points. And, as the other poster highlighted, he did very well in an unorthodox cross country season. There’s no reason to question Smith’s ability to develop him at NAU. Smith is a phenomenal coach.
However, again just something to think about, why change what’s working? Either go to Michigan w some input from Warhurst or go pro, keep training w Willis & company, and get the Michigan degree, if he can get in on his academics alone.
Idk, at this age, all good kids care about is running. But, running is very short lived. All but the very best and lucky are done by age 28. Life beyond running is much longer than life with competitive running. What if he becomes injury prone and never really achieves his potential? It’s a risk & happens to many (most?) unsuspecting, elite athletes. Get the Michigan degree, imho.
Kessler can probably run 1:47-48 right now, judging by this 3:57, a close in 27, reports of repeats in 55-56 and capability of closing 600s in workouts with a 25 last 200m.
Cocoa wrote:
He is a speed based kid, running 30-50mpw rn. Warhurst is heavy on hills and intervals. This is the complete opposite approach from Smith and NAU (not saying Smith is a bad coach, he is excellent for aerobic monsters). I worry he will go there and crumble under that mileage and lack of intensity.
If he PR’s again this indoor or outdoor seasons and runs in the 3:55-3:56 range, I’d rather see him turn pro and continue to work with Willis and Warhurst. Take classes and get your degree, but take control of your own running!!
hopefully a very decorated coach like Mike Smith would be able to figure this out. What a tough puzzle!
Sham 69 wrote:
I think that he just had a lucky race. Maybe he breaks 4 again, but it's going to be a year or two before he dips under 3:55. It was just a fluke IMO.
No such thing as a fluke when it comes to running a good race.
This is an interesting debate about where a guy who is going to NAU should go to college.
He should join Tinman
According to the NAU documentary beamish barely runs because he gets hurt so much. Not really “aerobic monster” stuff.
When do people realize that some kids pick schools for more than just running? The kid is a rock climber, a nationally ranked one too if I remember reading that. NAU area is perfect for rock climbers. He needs to do what he loves so he can succeed in all his different areas of life.
birdbeard wrote:
My understanding of NAU's training is that it still involves a lot of speedwork year round -- short 200-400 reps nearly each week. I do not believe the additional easy mileage will hurt him, and I think Smith will build him up to the mileage well.
I also don't think he's a pure middle distance runner. He ran something like 8:50 in a TT, right?
This is all correct. Not all NAU guys train like Tyler Day. 80-85 mpw during XC down to 70-75 during track and a taper for competition is more like what a miler would do at NAU. Smith is a very good coach and he will turn a guy like Kessler into not only a faster miler, but a phenomenal 3k/5k runner as well.
climberbros wrote:
When do people realize that some kids pick schools for more than just running? The kid is a rock climber, a nationally ranked one too if I remember reading that. NAU area is perfect for rock climbers. He needs to do what he loves so he can succeed in all his different areas of life.
Nailed it. Plus it's got the altitude advantage. He made a great choice.
Dumb choice for career which is what should be first consideration. He chose the school for running and rock climbing and some of you think those are the best criteria?
Bump
Kid should be at Oregon, not a cross country school. It also seems weird he didn’t just go to Michigan when Warhurst is already coaching him…
duck sauce wrote:
Bump
Kid should be at Oregon, not a cross country school. It also seems weird he didn’t just go to Michigan when Warhurst is already coaching him…
Kessler ran XC in HS and things seemed to work out for him. Do people think that Smith is too stupid to have Kessler run shorter intervals during track season? A continuation of whatever Hobbs is doing right now would be perfect.