Do you have anything to say txrunnrgirl?
Do you have anything to say txrunnrgirl?
read it was a little disappointed
of course had to put up with Kara crying at least once a chapter
Dr Yuengling wrote:
Kinda seems like the backbone of this book is the interviews from the gouchers and magness. Doesnt exactly reek of objectivity.
The Gouchers and Magness are definitely the people through whom the NOP section of the book is told. But that doesn't mean you can't be objective. He hired three fact-checkers for this book.
Even Kara admits early in the book that it wasn't all bad times for her at Alberto. This is what she said:
"I don’t want this to be all negative, we had a lot of good times...Galen was like my little brother and Alberto was like a father to me, for years. I loved them."
Obviously we get more of the Goucher/Magness perspective on issues, but what is Matt Hart supposed to do? Salazar wouldn't talk to him. Darren Treasure wouldn't talk to him. I don't think it's mentioned in the book, but I don't Rupp talked to him either. Matt presented Salazar's defense/explanation for subjects if he gave one publicly, and if there is something he's not certain about or couldn't verify, he either didn't include it or notes the uncertainty.
I think this is an important topic, and I'm glad he wrote the book. The best option would be to hear Salazar's perspective too, but if we only published journalism where everyone in the story offered their perspective, there would be a lot less quality journalism out there. The fact is, sometimes sources don't want to talk to reporters if they know they have/might have done something wrong.
I’m sure it is just a coincidence that the NOP has more “disgruntled former members/staff” and whistleblowers than every other track team in the world combined.
wejo wrote:
Matt Hart is an investigative journalist. I thought he was very fair.
Therefore, he wasn't.
full time babysitter wrote:
read it was a little disappointed
of course had to put up with Kara crying at least once a chapter
damn. Trolls are out in full force. I appreciate this book, I will say at this point I don't particularly care for the drip-drip of information about the project and all the players. I wish that all could have been more transparent from the get-go.
With that being said, Salazar will pretty much never return to the sport.
kanovne wrote:
full time babysitter wrote:
read it was a little disappointed
of course had to put up with Kara crying at least once a chapter
damn. Trolls are out in full force. I appreciate this book, I will say at this point I don't particularly care for the drip-drip of information about the project and all the players. I wish that all could have been more transparent from the get-go.
With that being said, Salazar will pretty much never return to the sport.
It's doubtful I would buy this book.
Solinsky was a great runner, his AR is world class. Of course Salazar being ultra competetive and vindictive wants to look for an excuse, so the thyroid thing isn't a surprise. Solinsky beat Rupp in that race (10000m in 2010) and I understand Salazar was angry his runner lost. So come the excuses. If it is at all true Solinsky was on a thyroid med. then unless it was a banned substance, Salazar's reasoning sounds silly.
As for the pass at Goucher, it is not out of the realm for a man to make a pass at a woman. Given he was supposedly coaching her, it is a bit questionable, but not entirely surprising.
These antecdotes are part of the gossip that running die hards would relish in. For me, this stuff is not that interesting.
kanovne wrote:
With that being said, Salazar will pretty much never return to the sport.
You underestimate the barrier of sycophants he’s surrounded himself with.
kmaclam wrote:
Dr Yuengling wrote:
Kinda seems like the backbone of this book is the interviews from the gouchers and magness. Doesnt exactly reek of objectivity.
Agreed.
It's tabloid journalism, which is why the JoBros gobble it right up.
Why buy it when you guys spilled the 10 juiciest beans on the site for free?
Greg wrote:
kanovne wrote:
damn. Trolls are out in full force. I appreciate this book, I will say at this point I don't particularly care for the drip-drip of information about the project and all the players. I wish that all could have been more transparent from the get-go.
With that being said, Salazar will pretty much never return to the sport.
It's doubtful I would buy this book.
Solinsky was a great runner, his AR is world class. Of course Salazar being ultra competetive and vindictive wants to look for an excuse, so the thyroid thing isn't a surprise. Solinsky beat Rupp in that race (10000m in 2010) and I understand Salazar was angry his runner lost. So come the excuses. If it is at all true Solinsky was on a thyroid med. then unless it was a banned substance, Salazar's reasoning sounds silly.
As for the pass at Goucher, it is not out of the realm for a man to make a pass at a woman. Given he was supposedly coaching her, it is a bit questionable, but not entirely surprising.
These antecdotes are part of the gossip that running die hards would relish in. For me, this stuff is not that interesting.
The pass is more than a "bit" questionable. He is married (and purports to be a devout Catholic) and she is married. He also was her coach at the time and in employment law terms, was her supervisor. In strictly running terms, it isn't interesting. But it is relevant for a book that seeks to expose a culture with no accountability for breaking rules.
Where Hart's book succeeds, in my view, is showing Salazar's faults and transgressions, and Nike's aggressive and reflexive push back at any accusation regarding any of its employees and sponsored athletes. Where Hart's book falls short is in showing what level of blame belongs to Nike. Did they know what was going on with their various athletes and teams? Did they have no direct knowledge but pointedly avoided finding out? Or did they simply stay out of the coaching and reflexively defend to protect the brand? It isn't surprising that Hart couldn't pin down the answer, but it does make the book less satisfying.
yeah let's make on thing clear. This was not an innocent "pass" at a woman. Salazar is a married Catholic who positioned himself to be Kara's surrogate father and coach. Kara was married to another athlete that Salazar himself coached. It's ridiculous, and made even worse that it happened on a flight with no where for Kara go.
I feel sorry that this happened to Kara. It had to have been confusing, disturbing and strange. It also happened during a time when women were routinely blamed for male attention they received--it's really only recently that we're opening our eyes to how unfair this is.
kanovne wrote:
yeah let's make on thing clear. This was not an innocent "pass" at a woman. Salazar is a married Catholic who positioned himself to be Kara's surrogate father and coach. Kara was married to another athlete that Salazar himself coached. It's ridiculous, and made even worse that it happened on a flight with no where for Kara go.
I feel sorry that this happened to Kara. It had to have been confusing, disturbing and strange. It also happened during a time when women were routinely blamed for male attention they received--it's really only recently that we're opening our eyes to how unfair this is.
Why would it be confusing for Kara? Was she a child?
Verrior wrote:
kanovne wrote:
yeah let's make on thing clear. This was not an innocent "pass" at a woman. Salazar is a married Catholic who positioned himself to be Kara's surrogate father and coach. Kara was married to another athlete that Salazar himself coached. It's ridiculous, and made even worse that it happened on a flight with no where for Kara go.
I feel sorry that this happened to Kara. It had to have been confusing, disturbing and strange. It also happened during a time when women were routinely blamed for male attention they received--it's really only recently that we're opening our eyes to how unfair this is.
Why would it be confusing for Kara? Was she a child?
No, but it turns out that Alberto was.
The Solinsky thing is likely, not plausible. I think we all know Jerry’s group is dirtier than NOP just without the scrutiny.
kanovne wrote:
yeah let's make on thing clear. This was not an innocent "pass" at a woman. Salazar is a married Catholic who positioned himself to be Kara's surrogate father and coach. Kara was married to another athlete that Salazar himself coached. It's ridiculous, and made even worse that it happened on a flight with no where for Kara go.
^ This ^
But funny how the Nike interns need to keep changing their PR. For years they have trolled us here, claiming that that story was of course untrue, because Salazar is too good person to ever do anything like that, and now his sexual abuse is called "making a pass" . . .
Similarly they have claimed for years that Salazar is too honest to ever break any rules, and now he is banned for three anti-doping rule violations (albeit only for four years, unfortunately). Now the PR is to call his transgressions grey area . . .
kinda sorta wrote:
Dr Yuengling wrote:
I imagine it's hard to respond to because you lack both reading comprehension and writing ability. I did not say that the author purposely excluded Alberto's side, nor did I say he reached unsubstantiated conclusions. But the fact is, as long as the only people who are talking extensively about Salazar are those who publicly despise him...
Salazar is banned. He was banned by the USADA. There is nothing more that needs to be said. Your personal hatred of gouchers and magness reeks of severe Salazar fanboy-ism.
Or your personal "positive bias" of the gouchers and magness reeks of severe Salazar hatred.
I've never posted on this thread and truly don't care as much as you, but...I just read some of the posts this morning and had to get my above comment in as the flip side makes you look extremely bias to an unhealthy level---please get that looked at, soon.
Also, I'm not a Nike employee or former Nike employee and don't even wear Nike shoes. Just a regular poster who sees you attacking another poster for no reason other than what you've thought up in your mind sitting behind your keyboard. I guess you're one of those people that are avoided at parties because they always think they have everything figured out. You have my pity.
Haven't read the book, but saying Magness and Goucher aren't an objective source on Nike is an obvious statement. Just mention the three fact checkers and move on - that's good info that makes their objectivity a non-issue.
Also, I'm not a fan of the Nike culture, but some of the former athletes and coaches seem to be getting some serious mileage out of their previous employment. I'm curious, did the book go into any detail on the alleged affair Magness had with an athlete? or the homophobic remarks on these message boards about "Gay"len Rupp?
ehehh wrote:
Haven't read the book, but saying Magness and Goucher aren't an objective source on Nike is an obvious statement. Just mention the three fact checkers and move on - that's good info that makes their objectivity a non-issue.
Also, I'm not a fan of the Nike culture, but some of the former athletes and coaches seem to be getting some serious mileage out of their previous employment. I'm curious, did the book go into any detail on the alleged affair Magness had with an athlete? or the homophobic remarks on these message boards about "Gay"len Rupp?
Regarding Magness' romantic relationship with an athlete he coached at NOP, the book mentions the romantic relationship being evident after they had moved to Houston, Magness' assertion that the relationship became romantic only after they quit NOP, and assertions from the Nike camp that the relationship started earlier. Hart does not have more evidence either way, and did not offer a conclusion. My only addition is that the claims from the Nike camp only emerged after Magness became one of the accusers. If Nike had really known that one of their employees was having an affair with an athlete he coached, it was their duty to take action at that time rather than shrug and only bring it up later as a counter-smear.
As for the message boards, they are mentioned several times, and I seem to recall some specific references to Rupp's use of medications and Salazar being dirty. I don't recall mention of the homophobic posts, but that may just be a faulty memory.
Thanks for the response. Sounds like an interesting read, though a bit salacious for my liking...I'm sure I'll still enjoy it.