Gary and Culpepper

You make alot of good points BDG, but is running at Stanford in May the right time for Culpepper to PR? Yea, he did in 2001, but lets play devils advocate for a moment and say that Culpepper runs in a quality 10K field in the Summer (most likely in Europe) How fast can he go then? 27:33 is respectable, but what would happen if he had another 2 months of training under his belt? 27:10? Sub 27? Sure, there wouldnt be alot of competition for Geb, hes Geb and maybe he wasnt the best example to use, but look at 2nd and 3rd place, theyre right around Culpeppers PR's. And those guys probably could have gone faster if they werent so demoralized that they were being beaten by almost a lap. What it comes down to is that Culpepper has what it takes to be a world contender, but until he throws himself into the hornets nest, runs in Zurich or Monaco or Brussels, he'll just be on the outside looking in. As for the original point of this thread about him running world XC, well, lets consider all of the guys that have run it:

Tergat- 6 time champion

Geb- nuff said

Kenenisa Bekele- Gebs Heir apparent to the title of Best in the world.

Bob Kennedy- Only American to go sub 13

And so many countless other World class runners.

How many quality 10ks were there in Europe last year? One-- Van Damme from what I recall. Not exactly the bevy of races that you imply Culpepper passed up.

Zat0pek wrote:

Family thing my ass. Culpepper simply doesn't run against good competition and never leaves the States unless its for an Olympic team. I am sick of people saying its because they have a kid. He didn't go BEFORE they had a kid.

Alan is a great, great talent with a tremendous work ethic and seems to be genuinely a good guy. Sure, he ran Chicago and I give him credit for that, but that has been an exception, not the rule for him. His total unwillingness to challenge himself and step outside his comfort zone has probably cost him at least one AR at 10,000 and undoubtedly kept him from getting the most out of his prodigious talent and training.

Think it might be possible that current events are affecting his or their decision?

My guess is that Jeff Dutra's speculation is on target. There are a lot of valid reasons for a family man to not wish to travel right now.

I also doubt that finishing 15th or so in World Cross Country is a big goal of Culpepper's.

This is true that Brussels was the only big 10K last year, but there were plenty of 5Ks and 3Ks he could gone for. Any experience is good. I can't think of many recent runners who don't race much in Europe who suddenly mop in championships. But once again flying over to Europe can be a pain in the ass and maybe he doesn't want to deal with it. Gary on the other hand, I know nothing about really, but he is a coach so that may have something to with it.

Or he could have been smarter and did exactly what he did do, which was put his energies into preparing for Chicago, and into helping his wife with their new baby, which seemed to be a tad more rewarding than eating dust in a middle distance race away from home in Europe. I guess that's why he ran a 2:09 debut and no one else here did.

I don't think Culpepper had any intention of running World XC this year, as he is hoping to run very fast on the track this year, and he probably thinks World XC would take away from his preparation. I wish he were running, but it's his call to make.

I heard Shayne was going to run, but the war in Iraq probably made her change her mind.

With the war going on, I wouldn't fault either one for not going, though I don't think anything will happen in Suiza.

the BDG rules. all hail the BDG.

BDG wrote:

I am ZatOpek. My purpose is to complain about Alan Culpepper. If I was Alan Culpepper, I would be the best runner ever. I would hold all records. All because I race more instead of train more. I am ZatOpek. I have spoken.

Freshman Runner - Geb ran it a couple of times but hasn't in a long time.

If Culpepper gets in a fast race in, for instance Brussels,

who's he going to run with? He'd be 40 secs over his head. At least at Stanford he has a pace more suitable to his ability.

I do agree with the overall sentiment that he does not race enough with the big boys. This is not the time however.

It just amazes me that people defend his refusal to compete against a higher level of competition. Wait. Amazes isn't the right word. More like confounds or befuddles.

I guess the JoggersWorld mentality has finally won. We're all winners and all races are the same. A four-minute win in the Cowtown 10K is as good as the World Cross championships. Sheesh. Never thought I'd see the day.

As for the question about who he would run with in Brussels, how about somebody faster and see if he gets pulled to a PR and maybe even an AR? That's how it works in any sport: prepare as best you can and see what you can do against the best available competition.

Zat0pek wrote:

It just amazes me that people defend his refusal to compete against a higher level of competition. Wait. Amazes isn't the right word. More like confounds or befuddles.

I guess the JoggersWorld mentality has finally won. We're all winners and all races are the same. A four-minute win in the Cowtown 10K is as good as the World Cross championships. Sheesh. Never thought I'd see the day.

As for the question about who he would run with in Brussels, how about somebody faster and see if he gets pulled to a PR and maybe even an AR? That's how it works in any sport: prepare as best you can and see what you can do against the best available competition.

At Stanford he had guys running 'his' pace and couldn't run any faster. In Brussels when the pace is much faster he'd be out the back door.

Jeff Dutra wrote: At Stanford he had guys running 'his' pace and couldn't run any faster. In Brussels when the pace is much faster he'd be out the back door.

It was April. Hanging on in April gets you 27:33. A couple of tune-up 3,000's or 5,000's then going to Brussels in August and hanging on might get you 27:10. It never stopped Kennedy from getting in over his head.

Stop being so confounded and befuddled.

Look, the guy's top priorities are quite likely to run a world class 10,000 on the track and to build upon the marathon prowess he showed in Chicago. A Colorado-based athlete is probably not even trying to be at his peak in March. He won a U.S. cross country title in February, but that was made somewhat easier by the fact that Meb was barely back in business after a long trip to Eritrea.

If Culpepper bypasses a chance to be in a fast 10k on the track, or skips a fall marathon, then bitch about him. It's quite clear the World Cross Country was never high on his agenda, and there's no reason that it had to be.

Yeah, his run in Chicago last October was a great example of "his refusal to compete against a higher level of competition." YOu stick with JoggersWorld, since you can't seem to ever get your facts straight.

Zat0pek wrote:

It just amazes me that people defend his refusal to compete against a higher level of competition. Wait. Amazes isn't the right word. More like confounds or befuddles.

I guess the JoggersWorld mentality has finally won. We're all winners and all races are the same. A four-minute win in the Cowtown 10K is as good as the World Cross championships. Sheesh. Never thought I'd see the day.

As for the question about who he would run with in Brussels, how about somebody faster and see if he gets pulled to a PR and maybe even an AR? That's how it works in any sport: prepare as best you can and see what you can do against the best available competition.

============================================================

Zatopek-

I've asked you this question before: why are you so obsessed with Alan Culpepper and his refusal to conform to your training/racing philosophy. I know, I know...the best race the best, blah, blah, blah! What is your deal?! Everybody has different plans. He's been quite successful with his particular plan. So what is your deal?!

My point is this: Alan Culpepper is a distance runner. He primarily spends his time training, and when he's ready for a serious race, he typically goes out and rips one. He not only runs fast times then, but competes quite well. He doesn't see the need to interupt his training with a bunch of racing. He'd rather keep building his fitness 'til he gets to his goal race(s). You'll recall that he didn't race between USATF track nationals last summer and the Chicago Marathon. How can you complain about the results he had there? Does the current World Record holder in the marathon race any more than Alan does? I don't think so. If Alan was trying to be a world beater at the 1500 or 5K, I would agree with your tiresome point a little more. But he's not - he's trying to run a fast 10K and become a medal contender for the marathon.

And as far as getting into one of the rare European 10Ks, I don't see that helping him. For the last few years, Alan fit much better in the Stanford 10K. Until he starts spanking the field there, there's no point in looking further away. There's nothing magical about running in Europe. The tracks are all 400m and the surfaces are exactly the same. Plenty of top runners show up at the Stanford race - otherwise he wouldn't keep going back.

So again, what is your obsession with your incessant complaints about Alan Culpepper?

BDG

Zat0pek wrote:

Jeff Dutra wrote: At Stanford he had guys running 'his' pace and couldn't run any faster. In Brussels when the pace is much faster he'd be out the back door.

It was April. Hanging on in April gets you 27:33. A couple of tune-up 3,000's or 5,000's then going to Brussels in August and hanging on might get you 27:10. It never stopped Kennedy from getting in over his head.

People have said Kennedy should have mixed it up with the big boys at 10k but never really did.

I'm not sure Culpepper gets into all that many Euro 3's and 5's.

Timo, Gary has slagged his coaching duties before to run races. Why not now? When he ran the trials are you saying OSU didn't have a meet that weekend? Check your schedule.

BDG wrote: So again, what is your obsession with your incessant complaints about Alan Culpepper? BDG

I only have a problem with it when people start trying to defend and excuse it, because there is no defense for it and there is no excuse for it.

Part of what makes any group of athletes raise their game is when they are held to harsh expectations and judgements by their peers. That is partly why great distance runners have risen in groups from the same country over the years. Here we have a guy that is trying to take the easy way out and there are supposedly knowledgable runners out there that are giving him a pass on this and I think that is ridiculous. We are so happy to have anyone running decent that pretend they are above reproach. That is not good for the collective quality of competition in this county.

My "deal" is that I don't think he deserves a pass on this and I only go after the subject when someone tries to excuse his refusal to race at a level worthy of his talent and preparation.

FreshmanRunner wrote:

As for baby Cruz, well, I mean I think its hard to believe that he cant find a baby sitter, why cant his grandparents take care of him?

Spoken like someone without kids. Don't pretend you know what its like to have children when clearly you have no clue.