Sessions and structure for sub-35?

The training principles for a 35 min 10 k are much the same like a 38 min 10 k. You just have to give your body a bit new stress to adapt to, something to cope with. Increase your mileage a bit, increase your quality sessions, whatever. For a detailed plan where to improve your training it would be necessary to know more details about your current training. However, you mentioned your 15 k long runs. You do not need very long runs of up to 35 km if you don't want to run a marathon in the near future. But you could easily increase these to about 20-25 km. What about tempo runs (5 or more km at or close to threshold pace)? If you don't do them regularly so far, make sure to introduce some. I prefer them to 1 k or 1 mile cruise intervals, becazse of the continous effort. In a race you can't have a recovery jog (no matter how short though) after every few laps either. But there are several more aspects, I don't want to write about everything in detail. Maybe you could give us an overview about your typical training week first...

Hi Partridge, thanks for your response.

So my average week would be 5 days running, as follows (more like 60 km than 50 km)

Sunday: 15 km or so long run

Monday: REST

Tuesday: Session, something like 18 x 1min w/ 1min active recovery

Wednesday: Easy run ~10 km (by HR, so 4:40-5 min/km)

Thursday: Session, something like 4 x 1mi or 6 x 5mins

Friday: REST

Saturday: Easy run ~10 km (by HR, so 4:40-5 min/km)

One thing that is missing in the tempo aspect. To be honest it's something I'm not sure how to incorporate - replace one of the weekday sessions, or up to 6 days running and tempo on the Saturday?

Given that it's summer and the weather is warm, should I be looking to work longer, tempo-like reps rather than batter myself trying to achieve paces for the shorter ones?

Hi

Interesting thread as this is also my mid term goal. I am a bit faster than you (36:30 - 10k, 17:30 - 5k) but i also improved from 38:00-39:00 over the last year.

What i did:

- (Approx 35 km / week - i want to bump it up slowly i think 50 km or more would be better)

- 6 runs per week

- 3 weeks increasing - 1 week 50% volume

- most weeks 2 sessions on the track (1 focusing on speed 8x400, pyramids 200-400-800-1200 and down and so on, 1 with longer intervals like 5x1000 or 3x1600)

- sometimes i replaced the speed sessions with hill Sprints (10 x 12 sec uphill)

If you really want to give it a go i would add the following (which i am too lazy to do regularly)

- 1 x LR 1:30 to 1:45 hrs

- 1 x Tempo 30 to 45 min at HM pace try to stay relaxed and smooth

Maybe it would also be better to keep the rest shorter on the longer reps (for instance only 1 Minute between 1000s - i do 3). I will try this in the future - to run the intervals slower. Also maybe run your easy days easier (i run them between 5:15 - 5:30 /km). And I found it helped to do core 3x a week, and 2x a week some strides after easy runs.

I would be happy If someone with experience could give us amateurs a bit of Input ;) i wish you all the best for reaching your goal !!!

Your Tuesday 18x1min is a pointless workout. Scrap it and do a real tempo run instead.

Your training priorities should be:

1. Increase weekly volume (aka mpw)

2. Increase your weekly long run.

3. Increase your weekly tempo run.

It might take you 6 months, it might take you 3 years, but do this and your 10k time will come down.

Oh, and the repeat mile session you are doing is ok, but it should be 4th on the priority list. Do the first three things religiously.

Eurorunner90, thanks for the info and good to see someone with a similar target - good work on what you've achieved over the year!

I do have a 18:30 5 km, so have some more speed there - but just need more strength and speed endurance.

I must admit, one of the things I struggle with is consistency, as life and work often gets in the way - so I'm sure getting strong blocks in will help a tonne.

Coffee Grind, thanks for the comments. I completely agree with points 1 and 2, and I will look to incorporate a weekly tempo - do you agree with Eurorunner90 and suggest HM pace, or threshold like Partridge?

I'm curious as to what you don't like about the 1min/1min - last time I did it I averaged low 6s for the on reps and low 7s float for the other. It's an attempt at track-style workouts without a track.

Thanks for the advice!

The biggest reason I don't like the min/min workout is that it does very little to cause the adaptations needed to run faster at the 10km distance. I understand that you may like the workout. You may feel energized or pumped that you are running fast like a mid-distance guy. But if you look at what your body needs to do in order to run a faster 10km, that workout isn't doing it for you. A well executed tempo workout will help you acompilish your goal much much, much, more than the min/min workout. I mean MUCH more.

And the fact that you average 6 on the min/min is useless info. The physiology going on in your body is what matters and the physiology that happens at tempo pace affects your 10km race more than the physiology that is happening durring the min/min workout.

Okay, thanks for the info and thanks for explaining why - I do understand what you mean in terms of the stimulus for the race distance.

What key workouts would you suggest to complement the weekly tempo run? Variations on long-rep sessions like the miles?

HelpMeTrain wrote:

I'm a mid-38 min 10k runner off of not too serious training (50 km weeks, long run of 15 km), and my next medium-term aim is to get to sub-35.

What should I look to be including in my workouts? And how long should I make my long run?

Any advice is gratefully received!

Take contact with coach JS , the only coach that can guarantee you to run sub 35. He coached me just 2 months and I ran

my master personal best 15.37 at 5 k ( former best 16.30). He is really magical and a very nice chap to deal with.

Irish master ace wrote:

HelpMeTrain wrote:

I'm a mid-38 min 10k runner off of not too serious training (50 km weeks, long run of 15 km), and my next medium-term aim is to get to sub-35.

What should I look to be including in my workouts? And how long should I make my long run?

Any advice is gratefully received!

Take contact with coach JS , the only coach that can guarantee you to run sub 35. He coached me just 2 months and I ran

my master personal best 15.37 at 5 k ( former best 16.30). He is really magical and a very nice chap to deal with.

Damn it, JS. We know that’s you lol

Irish master ace wrote:

HelpMeTrain wrote:

I'm a mid-38 min 10k runner off of not too serious training (50 km weeks, long run of 15 km), and my next medium-term aim is to get to sub-35.

What should I look to be including in my workouts? And how long should I make my long run?

Any advice is gratefully received!

Take contact with coach JS , the only coach that can guarantee you to run sub 35. He coached me just 2 months and I ran

my master personal best 15.37 at 5 k ( former best 16.30). He is really magical and a very nice chap to deal with.

JS, pretending to be someone else makes you look more of a lunatic than you already are.

To the OP - ignore this troll. He'll tell you he is a "world class coach" who has a roster of internationally elite stars, yet he seems to spend many hours a day on here begging (and I mean begging) to coach anyone, regardless of talent level. He is currently ruining this board. The Brojos don't seem to want to ban him, so it's clearly open season to spam the boards in this manner. I wish they could see what they are inviting by not being more strict with this spammer that ruins any thread about training (of which there are precious few as it stands).

Hi helpmetrain

I think the thing you are struggling with (consistency due to work and so on) is really common (also in my running community). What i did in the first place was to make sure no run is too short. Just get out every day If possible. Sometimes i just run for 15 min. It's better than nothing - at least that's what I tell myself...

And concerning the Tempo's i just use to run them at HM-Pace because i can't find the motivation to run them faster on a regular basis (i often work long hours and feel drained after work - that's why i want to enjoy my evenings ;)). So maybe it would be better to reduce the intervals and try to squeeze out a fast Tempo every week... I honestly don't know what's better...

Hey, I think you are wrong.I have followed his comments for some time now, and I must say the guy really knows what he is talking about unlike many others here.

GBohannon wrote:

Irish master ace wrote:

Take contact with coach JS , the only coach that can guarantee you to run sub 35. He coached me just 2 months and I ran

my master personal best 15.37 at 5 k ( former best 16.30). He is really magical and a very nice chap to deal with.

Damn it, JS. We know that’s you lol

Hello GBohannon! I like your style! You have humor exactly as me. Do you know the meaning of life? No? Its Love, friendship and ,,,,, humor! :)

JS, why do you keep thinking no one will know it's you? Are you seriously that stupid? Why do you keep spamming and ruining good threads? Don't you have some world-class elites to tend to? lol

Please Brojos.... ban this idiot. He ruins training threads. You might notice there aren't many left.

Yep, I have read a number of threads in the past that JS has killed - didn't think it would happen to me though!

So, I've been looking at other workouts that I can do alongside a weekly tempo - which includes hills, as mentioned earlier, as a shorter, high impact session. I guess what I'm wary of is having too much intensity (or rep volume) too close together - i.e. whether a 40min tempo should be coupled with a 4 x 2 km? or something shorter?

Try 15x400 at your best individual pace. Rest by walking easy until 120 bpm.

HelpMeTrain wrote:

Yep, I have read a number of threads in the past that JS has killed - didn't think it would happen to me though!

So, I've been looking at other workouts that I can do alongside a weekly tempo - which includes hills, as mentioned earlier, as a shorter, high impact session. I guess what I'm wary of is having too much intensity (or rep volume) too close together - i.e. whether a 40min tempo should be coupled with a 4 x 2 km? or something shorter?

You see it out of the wrong perspective buddy. JS is not killing any threads. He is giving away world class advice for free.

Except neither him nor any of his guises are answering the questions posed.

Please, get involved in the discussion, or take the shameless plugs elsewhere.

HelpMeTrain wrote:

Except neither him nor any of his guises are answering the questions posed.

Please, get involved in the discussion, or take the shameless plugs elsewhere.

But then you cant have read all the threads when JS gives away weekly training programs for free to the OP?

If you have done that its only to copy that kind of training week that is up to your level when it comes to paces.

Dont try to complicate things that dont have to be complicated. Good luck buddy!