What was your training when you ran 2:38

bump.

I'd also be curious what people were doing when they were in that 2:35-2:40 range. What kinds of workouts people hit and what some PRs were- 10k, 10 mile, half

Every week 20-22 long run, 60 min tempo mp down to half pace, 5-10 mins at half to 5k pace for around 50 to 60 mins hard. Those were my 3 workouts. The long runs were progressive. 120 mpw. Ran a couple halfs around 114 to 115

I ran 3 times a week ---45min hard Tuesday, 50min hard Friday, sunday 90min easy with periodical surges of 1-3mins hard. Ran 226 actually. No joke. But I was a 218 guy when training 6 days a week at 60miles per week. Good luck.

I never did much of anything other than steady runs at roughly my marathon pace. Occasionally I'd get talked into an interval session but that happened maybe 2-3 times a year. When I felt like running fast I did and when I didn't feel like running fast I didn't. Sometimes both of those things would happen in the same run.

I'd gotten from 4:34 to 2:41 in the marathon doing the above and loads of miles, usually double sessions, totaling 100-150 mpw. Long runs were typically 18-22 miles and in all those years I did have some stretches of time when I did intervals regularly, college type stuff, half and quarter miles for the most part but after graduation pretty much switched those to fartlek. I hated running on the track.

Then I had a couple years on that routine with no PRs at any distance and decided I would just do what I wanted as it seemed I'd milked the old routine for all I could. I decided I liked running once a day better than twice a day so went to one run which dropped my miles to the 75-90 range. And I shortened my long runs to 16-17 miles. Most of this was done at 10-15 seconds per mile on either side of 6:00 pace. I sort of adopted Jack Foster's idea of not training but of having a run each day. That got me a new set of PRs and the 2:35.

I should emphasize that I had other stretches of time when I was in the 75-90 mpw range and raced much slower. I don't think the "magic" was in the 75-90 miles as much as in the fact that I'd come down to that level from a much higher one. And I raced a lot more than is common today. I certainly was not prolific by the standards of the time but still raced a lot more than almost everyone does now.

16 miles a day with one long run and two workouts. Probably in better shape than 2:38 that day but felt lousy that day with little sleep. Last long run was slow for 4 miles, from 7 minute pace down to low 6 for 5 miles, then low 5:40s for the last 12 miles. When I ran 2:39, my last long run of 21 or 22 had the last 13 at 6:02/M (2:38 pace). I also do an 8 mile tempo with the first four at MP and the second four at 1/2 MP, about 15-20 seconds/mile faster. Then there are workouts like 3x2M at 10k pace with 400m jog or 5-6x1600 (200-400 rest) @ 5k-10k pace or 20x400 (100j)@mile-3k pace.

awesome info thus far, appreciate it

I was training mostly for triathlon. At the time (late 80s) this meant a focus on 10k. Most of my runs were at 6min pace or faster. Key run work included long run of 13 to 16 on Tuesday, track work on Thursday, and a 5 miler on Friday aiming for 5 min miles.

Add 350 miles of biking and 15 miles of swimming.

YMMV

I had a big breakthrough in the 6 months before my debut. 1:11 half 6 months out sub 32 10K just before the marathon.

70-80 miles a week. Long runs of 18 to 20 with up to 10 miles at MP. Six weeks out I added weekly sessions of repeat miles, 1.5s, or 2s at a little slower than 10K pace. Other than that just consistent steady running.

I've run 2:32 to 2:38 on about 4 or 5 different occasions....

*A string of 100-120 mile weeks.

*Weekly 22 mile long runs

*Weekly midweek 16-18 mile runs

*Lots of stuff at 5:45-6:00 pace

*ALWAYS finish long runs at 5:45-6:00 for last 3-5 miles

*Key workouts were sustained runs (4-6 mi at 5:15-30, 6-10mi at 5:45-6:00)

*Secondary workouts were mile repeats at 5:00

*Experimented with cruise intervals....8-10 x mile at 5:15-30 with 1:00 or 4-5 x 2mi with 2:00

*Lots of 8-10mi progressive run start easy finishing faster....6:30-6:00-5:45-5:15

Alan

Totally winged it when I ran 2:38.. next marathon after that got cocky because I had trained and blew up hard and finished at 2:45

I remember doing a 22 miler averaged at 6:40, an 18 miler averaged at 6:30, and a good 15 miler. lots of 11-13 mile runs though. Think I only really did one workout which was something like a hilly 6 mile way too hard tempo at 5:35 pace. My plan was to run the marathon with a family member at 3:45 pace but found out a friend was doing it and he talked me into actually racing.

Biggest thing was the race group, was tucked in with 10-12 people in the 2:40 group, but as they say ignorance is bliss- remember clicking through at 6:30 the first mile, my friend who I got separated with at the start found me around there and said "eff it I'm bored let's go" and we started dropping 5:50's until we caught a group of guys at around 4 miles and there was lots of open space in front of them and we decided to calm it down, they were metronoming 6:0X's and just tucked right in.

I had run a hilly 75:40 half marathon a few months earlier, and a 15:50 5k on an indoor track. 8k XC from fall before was low 27, for comparable times. I think biggest thing for me was this was the first time I had consistently been hitting 60+ mile weeks, but more so started doing "real" long runs, had usually always capped at 13 before.

When I was actually training for the marathons I blew up in I remember feeling super fit after having a decent amount of 18-20 milers, 10-13 mile MP tempos, 10+ reps of 2 min on 2 min off fartleks, cruise miles, and 2 x 4 miles at HMP. I don't really remember doing any 2 mile repeats but have heard from many that that is key.

safe to say that a hm near 1:15 is something that the vast majority of 2:38 marathoners can run?

yes. My best was 1:14 and I ran 1:15 this February after being sick for awhile (2:38 was two months earlier and I had a break after that). I think that 1:12-13 was in the offing if I had run that instead of the marathon. You just need to get comfortable running 1:19 pace or just over 6/mile, so you want to run a lot of miles at that pace in training.

Correct, my half is 1:14 high and marathon is 2:37 high. However, I likely could have ran 1:13 in my marathon shape.

My key workouts were 10x 1k, 6-8x 1 mile, 6-8 mile tempo runs, 3x5k, and 3 20 mile long runs, 1 of which I ran pretty hard. I also ran 2 tuneup races, a 5k and a 10 mile.

70-100 miles a week. Mostly weeks between 80-90.

Hour long MP run once a week. A 14-15 MP run three weeks out.

18-22 mile run on Sundays.

Longer intervals - something like 3k, 2k, 2k.

Run into work and often run home too. 8-10 miles those runs generally.

A half marathon 5-6 weeks out.

8-10 miles most days starting at 7:00 pace, finishing at 6:00 pace

Long run up to 18-22ish miles 6-8 times, starting at 7:30 finishing around 6:00

The biggest thing that helped me go from 2:40-2:45 down to 2:34-2:36 was: 3-5 mile reps around marathon pace

2 mile reps around half marathon pace

A couple designated long runs of 8-10 at 6:45 and 8-10 at 5:45-6:00

curious about all of these progressive runs.

1: were most of them (for the sake of this, lets use longer 13+ mile runs as the basis) planned or did they tend to happen organically.

2: when cutting down, was it progressive or did you guys go from one mile being around "7:00" (just an example) to 5:45-6:00?

3: to progress into this would something like 10 easy and 3 at MP and then build that MP section be useful or do you think its better to build the volume on the easy side (ex: 10 easy + 3 MP, then 12 easy + 3 PM .... etc) seem better?

Ran a 2:37 off of 80-100 miles/week.

Minimum of 10 miles every morning with easy doubles most days. Pace for most runs was 7:00-7:15/mile.

Long runs Sunday were usually 16 miles, with a 20 mile run every other week. One long run of 24 miles.

I could only handle one workout per week when at this high of mileage. I was mostly alternating between running ten miles at marathon pace (5:55ish) or 6-8 x mile at half marathon pace.

2 months out, I ran a 1:13 half.

4 weeks out I did 6 x 2 mile at 11:50 with 0.5 mile recovery.

3 weeks out I ran a 15:55 5k

2 weeks out, I failed at running Yasso 10x800 at 2:35. Probably doesn't matter for anything, as the consensus is that these are bunk.

I should have been good for a 2:34-2:35 that day. Combination of poor tapering and bad weather.

2:35 doing the Hanson's Advanced Marathon Plan.

Basically 60-70 mpw. 1 tempo a week at race pace ranging from 6-10 miles. 1 strength or speed interval session a week. 1 long run every other week from 16-18 miles.