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| runguru |
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80 miles in 7 days: Sunday- 17 miles easy Monday- 10 miles w/ 10 X 400 meter hill repeats Tuesday- 17 miles w/ 20K at "uptempo" Wednesday- 10 miles w/ 5 X 1:00 on/off, 5 X 2:00 on/off Thursday- 5.5 miles easy Friday- 9.5 miles easy Saturday- 10 miles easy Giddyup! |
| runguru |
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Before someone corrects my math, I ran 18 on Sunday. And get to do that again manana. |
| Double |
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I run the Ice Age 50 mile annually which is May 12th. I mainly just run...do about two, sometimes three events a year. The other event I usually do is Al's Run 8k in Milwaukee. Pretty much been running since the mid 70s. Had a few lean years raising kids and working, but after decades it just seems right to be in good shape just in case you have to beat someone down. I also don't worry about blowing down a couple dozen chicken wings now and then. |
| mo'pak |
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Thanks for the kudos. For reference, based on comparisons of training with last February, I feel like I'm in better shape than I was at that time, when I was 17:55 5K shape. So plugging 17:50 into McMillan calculator yields a Tempo pace range of 6:02-6:18, so I think that Hard Tempo is the right characterization (this was 6:02 pace). On the other hand, McMillan would suggest that I do my steady-state runs (of about 40 minutes) around 6:20-6:25 pace...no way I can do that! To me, these pieces of information that we provide each other allow us to gauge whether what we are doing makes sense for where we're at. Are we training hard enough? Too hard? So I truly appreciate it when you guys check if what I'm doing makes sense. I feel like I'm training about right now. I wasn't 1-1/2 year's ago when I overdid it and left myself with a long-nagging, mild injury. I was training where I wanted to be, not where I was at. It's easy for me to slip up and train to hard, so putting what I do out there is for me a bit of checks and balances. It's truly all relative, isn't it. On an broader scale, of course, other 50+'ers like racerdb and msr (and many others), can easily clean my clock, and now that Magill is 50 we're all a knotch lower than we were last spring. These days my mantra is that the most important part of training is not to getting injured. As to Alan B's other discussion: I wish I had an answer to this. I'm not much of a marathon type. Even so, I definitely feel that putting some MP stuff into your long runs is a good thing. Here's my reasoning. One of my training buddies (I usually run alone, though) can run marathons with less than a month between; he's 47 and runs in the 2:55-2:58 range. He will typically crank it up for a good 6-8 miles during his long (>15 miles) runs. He kills me whenever I do long runs with him; I can keep pace, but I'm absolutely wiped at the end, and he's ready to keep going. In comparing the two of us, it's interesting that I've got substantially better PR's than him in everything (even up to 1/2-marathon) but the marathon, yet I have a hard time keeping pace with him on long runs. Bottom line is I do more speed, he does more miles (70-80 mpw, usually), but interestingly his long runs are faster than mine. So the long, faster runs must be helping him in regards to the marathon, yes? I also know that the pro's will often do 30K runs at MP, but that just sounds daunting to me. Those guys are such aerobic monsters, that I'm not sure modeling our training after them will be most beneficial to us. So that's the anectdotal knowledge I have; I'd be curious to hear some perspectives of some more seasoned master's marathoners. Cheers![/quote] lucKY, seems you are about 10 years faster than me, I was running around 10.20, 17.40, 36.00, 60.00 as a 40-43 year old. Frequent racing (weekly 3-16k) meant I had little need for tempo running during the season. I did lead into the season with tempo/time trial efforts usually looking at running @ a speed I could hold for twice the distance run e.g. 5k @ predicted current 10k pace. This was about the same as your effort as I would start the season in about 37.30-38.00 10k shape. During the season my only "speedwork" was typically a fast 1600m (on bike path) then finishing with 2-3 faster 400s. Usually done in 5.40 down to 5.20/30 and 80s down to 72/75s. That little bit of a hitout kept me sharp and able to race well week in week out from April to September. |
| old guy II |
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Well said! |
| mo'pak |
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+1 I'm hoping that maybe "tempo" was not the correct word. Week 40: 5 singles, 2 doubles, so 9 runs (3 on the treadmill), 65 miles. The long run yesterday was a blast, super slow for an hour and a half, then 7 km at marathon pace, then easy until time was up, 2 hours 45 total. Worked out to just under 18 miles. Pleasantly trashed. The plan is to keep the long run at 2:45 (2:00 on fallback weeks), and gradually lengthen the MP segment, adjusting by recovery (or lack thereof). With 5 more of these long runs (plus 2 fallbacks) to go before the taper, anybody want to offer an opinion about what's a good way to build the MP segment? Should I even be doing this? Aerobically I *might* already be fit enough to reach my A goal, but I'm hoping these faster long runs will help me not fall apart in the last 6 miles of the race. Then again, I don't want to overdo it. Long runs with MP are new for me, my first two marathons I just ran slow on the long runs. Thoughts?[/quote] Not sure I'm very qualified to advise, best marathon was only 2.43 and only a 2.57 as a masters runner but here is my 2 bob's worth anyway. The long run is THE key in my opinion, certainly for us mortals anyway. It should be a hard run when preparing for a marathon. For my last road marathon in 2000 at age 40 (2.57) I ran a rugged mostly cross country course of 30 plus kms. From 4-20kms was tough steep paddock running, creeks, bogs, boulders included. I worked strongly throughout this section. The last 10k was faster, rolling hills for about 5k then about 5k of flat bike path/road. I would run this section @ 4.15km pace even on the rolling hills. This meant I was running 10 testing kms @ marathon pace after about 80 mins of hard slogging xc, plus the easy 20min warmup. So I was running marathon pace with a good level of overall fatigue but didn't cop the pounding I would have if I did a similar intensity on the road. 5 weeks out I ran a 40+ km mountain run @ a relaxed effort and 3 weeks out I ran a rhythm run on flat dirt roads for 28km in just over 2hrs with the last 20kms all at marathon pace. I raced (5-10kms) every week during this period. In my younger/faster days the long runs usually followed a similar pattern (although less of the rugged xc.)with an easy 20 mins or so then picking it up usually through hilly country often running 60-90mins at around 90% of marathon intensity and then pushing it home at marathon pace for 10-15kms. I also used similar plans for my mountain marathons and ultras, events I was far more successful in. |
| Alan Bennet |
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Thanks all. Sounds like it's reasonable for me to build to 10 km easy, 10 km steady, 10 km marathon pace. And see where that gets me this year. |
| racerdb |
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Man, the 50-54 is really getting tough! Welcome Tony. We'll let you hang here for few weeks 'til the big day! lucKy2b: Plans are to run in Lexington. Not 100% sure which team though. Looking forward to some post run Kentucky Bourbon Ale's...Nice tempo! Dave |
| Bushman |
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Mark is indeed one quick fellow on the boards. Rhinelander has more than it's share of great skiers. Nienstaedt,Mitch Mode, the Cook family,Bryan and Wayne Fish, Adam Swank, etc. Oddly enough I could soundly outrun most of those guys years back. Yet, they could ski circles around me any day of the week. Kudos to Mark...great skier and fine coach. |
| lucKY2b |
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************************* Week 41 ************************* Wow! What a tumultuous week it's been here in Kentucky. With two rounds of frightful weather (Wednesday and Friday), including high winds, baseball sized hail, and tornadoes. The tremendous amount of damage across this and neighboring states will be felt for years to come. The needs are and will remain great, and while this isn't meant to be a direct plea for help, I ask that we all consider what we can do to help those who have suffered in this or any other overwhelming natural disaster. I, personally, feel very fortunate to have not been directly impacted by all these calamities. So it's with a heavy-heart for those who have suffered so much, a sense of humility at the awesome powers that be, and a gratitude to have, once again, not had to suffer their wrath that I write today. Running-wise, I actually had a good week. As promised, I stepped back from the previous few weeks with less distance and less intensity, reaching 39+ miles on 7 days of running. I thought I might take a day off, but it just worked out that I could get my runs in. My weekly mileage log reads as such: S: 5.8 easy M: 7 easy (5 on grass) T: 5.2 easy (2.6 on grass) W: 7.5 w/5x(.2 on, .2 off) total time for 2-mile workout 11:52. R: 5 easy, but with last .7 under 5k race pace. F: 5.1 easy S: 4+...but not sure how to count it. Notes: Not much this week, as I only did one workout (on Wednesday). With the storms, it was nice to have the indoor track.The 0.2 on's were 62,60,60,60,61 (60s is 5:00 pace), while the .2 off's averaged 82 (6:50 pace). The exciting thing for me was that the .2 on's felt about as smooth as they have in quite some time. I didn't know how to count the Saturday mileage. We had Science Olympiad event that I direct. I ran from home in the morning at 5am, walked, jogged around, running up and down steps all day: setting up, putting out brush-fires during the event, and cleaning up afterwards (I was on my feet all day.) Then I jogged home afterwards...my legs were dead. Slept 11 straight hours last night. Just now starting to feel human again. At any rate, I'm really feeling good about the trajectory of my training. The augmentation of core work and finding the exercises that have brought relief from this hip ailment have certainly helped. Hopefully, I'll be able to get the mileage back up this week, approaching 60 mpw in the coming month. That's about all I got. Hope you all are training, racing, or recovering well. I look forward to hearing how it's all going. Seems like this spring may be a wild one. Stay Safe! |
| runguru |
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80.5 miles. Monday- 9.5 with 10 X hills (up 300 and down 100) Tuesday- 17.0 with 40 X 350/50 Wednesday- 9.5 with a 40 mph tailwind Thursday- 6.0 very easy Friday- 10 in the hills Saturday- 10 very easy Sunday- 18.5, a little hung over but got it done Looking forward to racing a 5K next Saturday to see where these miles have brought me. |
| old guy II |
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60 miles this week. Nothing fancy, just 6 days of 8 and 1 of 12. If I can sustain this mileage for 3 weeks and all the parts continue to hold together, then it will be time to start putting some workouts into the mileage. |
| racerdb |
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Wow, L2b...you guys got blasted twice last week. Tough times for a lot of folks in your neck of the woods. We just had winds to deal with up here. Kind of halfway between the storms down south and the 18" of snow in Northern MI. The forecast is looking much warmer for us the next few weeks. Running is pretty much back to normal. Got in 70 miles on just steady running with two key days: Did a nice progressive 10 on Wed starting at 7:10 and finishing at 5:50; Long run of 13 at 6:49/mi went well Saturday. Both were run in hellacious winds! Think I'll enter my race of the year this week, a 20K in Ft. Wayne IN on March 24th... Have a good week everyone, Dave |
| Victoria, B.C., Canada, Runner |
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Well, I was wondering about you & how you were those storms were almost world wide nnew s (boy, what IS THE MATTER with this website, curser keps freezing up!) Anyhow, still in recovery mode but still getting out for 20 plus min. at a time...nothing to really report at this time..:( |
| wxboy |
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I finished up a good three week period this weekend. I switched up and did my hill workout on Saturday and the tempo on Sunday. The tempo turned into a 3x1mile workout with 1 mile rest because of construction on the bike trail I frequent. The miles were 6:03, 5:47, and 6:10. I was happy with those times because I could feel Saturday's hills in my legs. Like runguru I'm planning to race next weekend but at 8K. I'll rest up this week, hoping to bag a fast time. Anyone have any tricks for staying loose while you are standing at the starting line? I always seem to need a mile or so before I really get rolling no matter how much warm-up I do. You think it might be this age thing? :-) M: 5 easy T: 5 easy W: Bike intervals 20 min. warm up 5x2min with 2min rest 8 min cool down T: 5 easy F: 5 easy S: 8 miles with 7 long hills S: 8 miles with 3x1mile with 1 mile rest |
| Alan Bennet |
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Correction. "Steady" was the wrong word, come to find out that is between marathon pace and half-marathon pace. What I want to do is 10km at between easy and MP. Week 41: 4 singles, 2 doubles, 1 day off, so 8 runs (3 on the treadmill), 59 miles. Monday's hill workout was weak, still wobbly from the Saturday long run. Tuesday was an unintended day off, I got trapped at work. The Wednesday hill workout went great, maybe I should take more days off! The Saturday long run I did 10 km slow, 9 km at MP, 11 km in no-man's land. Not there yet. Week 42 is a fallback. Looking at lucKY2b's week 41 mileage, I am wondering if my idea of "fallback" maybe doesn't fall back enough? I have planned Tuesday 4-5x800 "hard" (whatever that works out to be), Friday 20 minutes MP and Saturday 2 hours easy, around 8 hours 30 total for the week. Week 40 - 10 hours, 3 workouts Week 41 - 9 hours (1 missed day), 3 workouts Week 42 - 8 hours 30, 1 workout and 2 "1/2" workouts ???? |
| KP |
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Greetings M50+ers. Always great to hear from all y'all tough old tracksters and roadsters. I'm just happy to "deal with" this left foot plantar crap. All you can really do, if you want to keep running while you wait for it to fade away, is back off immediately when it flares up. Be it for a long run, hard session, or weekly volume. I will let y'all know if my current focus on a combo of Graston and Acupuncture has any impact. Giving it 4 weeks. Good progress trial for me today... 3000 on the track @ 10:45 (4mins rest) 1000 @ 3:30 (2mins rest) 1000 @ 3:25 A full minute faster for the 3k compared to 6 weeks ago. KP |
| Double |
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KP. I though I had about ever injury you could have and then PF set in the Summer of 2010. I had it in both feet. I took six weeks off...nothing. I stretched...nothing. I used a golf ball and iced...some help, but it didn't go away. I slept in a splint...nothing. I never hit the floor without having shoes on. I tried the cushioned inserts...it just would not go away. I join the local gym to use the treadmills. This was tolerable. What eventually worked for me was hearing Leroy Butler here in Wisconsin talk about the Good Feet store. I went, was fitted, and in two weeks was almost pain free. I have a pair (inserts) I walk around in all day and a pair I run in. They were expensive, but to my astonishment they worked for me. Mon AM = 6.6 w/ Jamie and dogs. Tue AM = 6.1 w/ Jamie and dogs. Tue PM = 7.5 w/ 10:00 tempo and 4 x 1:25 hill hard. Wed AM = 12.0 w/ Jamie and his dog. Thu AM = 6.5 w/ Jamie and dogs. Thu PM = 7.0 w/ 22:00 tempo. Fri AM = 6.1 w/ Jamie and dogs. Sat AM = 16.2 Sun PM = 10.0 w/ my dog. Week = 78.0 |
| imarunr |
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Goal race: Three Sisters Marathon, June 9th Week of 02/26 - 03/03 Sun, 02/26: 18 miles in 2:14:04 (7:27/mi. avg.) Splits: 8:04, 7:35, 7:33, 7:31, 7:30, 7:25, 7:37, 7:27, 7:47 (?), 7:30, 7:47 (?), 7:29, 7:15, 7:15, 7:12, 7:26, 6:57 (including climbing over a stopped freight train on Front Ave @ the Steel Bridge), 6:44 (up Overton). Mon, 02/27: usual day off running Tue, 02/28: 2 mi. warmup, 4 x 100m strides, 5 x 1200m w/2:00 jog recoveries (4:38, 4:38, 4:36, 4:36, 4:35), 2 mi. cooldown. Day's total = 8 miles Wed, 02/29: 7.4 miles in 56:10 (7:36/mi. avg.) Splits: 7:45, 7:43, 7:52, 7:38, 7:23, 7:35, 7:24, 2:50 for .4 miles. Thu, 03/01: 8 miles in 57:58. Splits: 8:05, 7:35, 7:25, 7:02, 7:06, 7:11, 6:46, 6:20 (up Overton). Fri, 03/02: 8 miles in 57:17 (7:09/mi. avg.) including 11 x 1:00 on/1:00 off. Sat, 03/03: ~6 miles (?) in ~58:00 (SUPER SLOW) on trails and logging roads off Hwy 53 in the Nehalem National Forest. What a spectacular place to run! There were endless miles on even, rolling, dirt logging roads up there. You could easily get in a 20-miler all on dirt. Definitely want to go back and explore this option. Weekly total: ~56 miles Weights/core on Mon, Tue, Wed this week. |
| Rtype |
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Sat = 5, reps of 6:58, 7:02, 6:51 Sun = 3.7, Mountain Mon = 5K @ 7:22 pace Tue = 5K @ 7:17 pace Wed = 5K @ 7:09 pace Average pace for 12.3 Timed Miles = 7:12 Total Miles = 18. The overall average is down a blip primarily due to Saturday's slow times. Saturday morning on the track we were treated to very windy conditions. The rest of the week were just solid efforts that felt easier than previously. I am finally feeling solid enough to venture an up-tick in pace and began actual track work at this writing. This is a diversion from pure steady-state running but, essentially, steady-state includes races as part of training and I'm substituting speed for races when I'm not racing. I'd like to think this is just the beginning of a long spiral of increased fitness and dropping paces. I know my mileage seems ridiculously low but I'm feeling great and, knock-on-wood, am 100% healthy. I never had the intention of using this methodology of training, it just seems to be an organic response to listening to my body. Occasionally we are reminded just how thin is the veil of safety of which we are enveloped. Prayers go out to those recovering from the tornado's. |
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