2010 MAC XC?

D1 or D3?

The MAC (D1, I'm assuming sucks)

A bunch of average d1 hacks pretending to be better than they are because they can score high at total shit conference meets. Most of the teams in the max couldn't beat the best d3 teams.

I personally know of at least one MAC runner who insists he is an elite caliber runner (claims to have 13:5x type ability) and has never broken 14:45. The entire team he's on is awful, they recruit Kenyans and proceed to make them worse, their American kids don't get much better than they were in high school. Generally offer.

I have some respect for EMU, but the conference as a whole is a piece of shit.

1) The MAC coaches don't know how to recruit. When you're in a mid-major conference with teams that haven't made it to NCAAs in I-don't-know-how-many-years, you can't be turning away HS guys that could be gems in the rough. I know of a couple instances where kids got turned away and are now sub-14:30 5k in D3 (which would be tops in the MAC).

2) Their runners never develop

3) Runners that do develop transfer (aka Minen)

What is a Bowling Green?

The reason the MAC coaches turn athletes away is because they HAVE to. The freaking AD's at the MAC programs have placed strict upper limits on the number of athletes that can be on the team so as the bean counters can make it look like there is a good ratio between men and women. Some of the MAC men's teams can't take any more than 11-13 on the cc team, and 30 or so on the track team. That doesn't allow much flexibility.

Moody will win Bank on it.

Thanks for playing the "name-calling" game. If MAC coaches can't tell the difference between huge improvements in one athlete's season to another athlete who didn't improve at all from Junior to Senior year, then they are the idiots.

what MAC conference is this about?

You know what team really is pathetic?

Central Michigan

I don't know, but I have a feeling thats what the earlier poster was referring to...

they have like 4 Kenyans who are all average d3 caliber, at best, they have some 9:1x guys from high school who 2-3 years out still can't break 14:40. They are awful. They had a guy run like 10:20 in steeple. There are fat slow kids on d3 teams that run 30 mpw that can do that...

Central Michigan University is a hell-hole for average runners. On the men's side, its a sure bet for someone who is looking to tumble into total anonymity during their college career.

Terrible athletes, terrible coaches, terrible program

Plus Mt. Pleasant is a shit town

Ralphy wrote:

1) The MAC coaches don't know how to recruit. When you're in a mid-major conference with teams that haven't made it to NCAAs in I-don't-know-how-many-years, you can't be turning away HS guys that could be gems in the rough. I know of a couple instances where kids got turned away and are now sub-14:30 5k in D3 (which would be tops in the MAC).

Mike Inge, Daniel Huling, Corey Nowitzke, Jordan Desilets-all decent high school runners who developed and did/are running on the national scene. Those are 4 I remembered in about 13 F|_|(king seconds.

1) Mike Inge saw his greatest performances and better days come under Brad Hunt, not Croghan...From his Ragged Mountain Racing Bio:

-The formation of Ragged Mountain Racing has given Inge the opportunity to be reunited with his collegiate coach, and Inge, now recovered and training under Hunt, is looking to pick up where he left off.

Nonetheless, the guy is a great runner.

2) You are right on the other guys, but still only 4.

3) I can name you off the top of my head 10+ guys who have either a) barely improved post-HS or b) have not improved at all. These range from mid-distance to distance, trying not to be a dick here and name names.

I can name 10 guys off the top of my head in the Big 10, PAC 10, Big 12, Heps...

There are no more or no less failures in the MAC than any other conference. It is funny when guys come on here talking this crap. Every conference has a laundry list of guys that didn't improve. EVERY conference!

The Mid American Conference is a great training ground for many midwest and OH athletes, as such I feel no need to bash it.

However as a HS coach in OH I try to persuade potential athletes of mine to go Big 10 there are much fewer burn-outs, unimproved runners at those schools. I've been in this game a long time and have seen a lot. Akron U, KSU, Miami have gotten a lot of guys with talent and for some reason they suddenly loose the motivation to eat right and train. A couple former athletes of mine had a reunion which I attended, there were all atrociously over race weight IMO, I was appaled.

Everyones ghost wrote:

I can name 10 guys off the top of my head in the Big 10, PAC 10, Big 12, Heps...

There are no more or no less failures in the MAC than any other conference. It is funny when guys come on here talking this crap. Every conference has a laundry list of guys that didn't improve. EVERY conference!

well, duh.

the difference is that hardly anyone in the mac really has been doing any improving or reaching of a high regionally or nationally competitive level.

not everyone is going to improve, but at least someone should

OHRunner:

If you are really a high school coach in Ohio then you seriously need to wake up and smell the roses. A program like Ohio State goes through athletes like water, ruining athletes, but everyone gives them a break since they are "Big Ten". If that same thing happens in the MAC, coaches jump on that bandwagon. I would suggest, shouldn't the Big Ten schools with all their money, etc. perform at a high level? OSU gets all the top talent in the state each year, for very little money (10-20%) but has never won the Big TEn cc meet. Why? Guess they don't walk on water like you high school coaches think. Just sick and tired of folks jumping down the throats of the MAC. Its a solid place for athletes and the coaches in the MAC do a great job with the very limited resources they have. Yes, as you might tell, I am pro-MAC and have a great deal of respect for what they do.

It isn't football; there was ZERO distance tradition at Ohio State in the distance area until Gary started coaching. Now they qualify as a team for Nationals a little more than every other year (only Wisconsin and Minnesota can make that claim in Big 10. They show as much development as any other program in the Big 10 and more than most. Problem with Ohio high school coaches and posters like is that they don't know realize that good Ohio talent isn't better than National talent. A 9:20 two-miler (which is the majority bulk of Ohio State's team) is going up against sub-9 recruits.

If you want to knock the program/Gary, then say he should quit recruiting in just Ohio and either get a couple foreigners or go after only the best top 5 nationally.

if not, let him keep trying to develop a couple 9:20 recruits every year until they can compete in Big 10 and Nationally while also fielding a very balanced track team at the same time.

2008 XC 4th

2009 indoors 4th

2009 outdoors 2nd

2009 XC 2nd

2010 indoors 2nd

2010 outdoors 3rd

The MAC has no more than 3 people in each distance event that can even dream of scoring at Big 10's. Those are just the facts from the end of year lists! Meanwhile, athletes that have run 3:45, 8:50, and 14-flat can't even score because there are too many good guys!

Why such a hardon for the MAC? Most of the Big 10 couldn't care less about the MAC. It always seems to be Ohio State or Michigan/Michigan State guys doing all the bashing because of proximity.

Let me clue you in on something: the Big 10 is SUPPOSE to be better than the MAC. Why even bother compare? They don't play by the same rules. Big 10 schools are twice the size, have 10-times the budgets and the fancy sweaters. There is a reason why the Big 10 typically dominates the MAC in revenue sports: better facilities, better draw, bigger budgets. Same with xc/track.

One could argue that MAC coaches do way more with a lot less. Plus, on the men's side, you are talking about comparing a six-team league to a 10-team league. On the women's side, the Big 10 is always starting way ahead because they have a dozen 5:00 milers walking on every year.

The MAC doesn't compare themselves to the Big 10 but, for some reason, the Big 10 is always trying to compare themselves to the MAC. There are several MAC coaches that can coach circles around Big 10 coaches in terms of developing talent.

yeah the Big10 is supposed to be better than the MAC, but then why the hell isn't the MAC better than good d3 schools? Face it, the MAC, as a whole, SUCKS. They may have an athlete or relay here or there that is good/nationally relevant, but the conference is terrible. Like I said before, most of the MAC couldn't even field a d3 national individual champion.

D3-er wrote:

yeah the Big10 is supposed to be better than the MAC, but then why the hell isn't the MAC better than good d3 schools? Face it, the MAC, as a whole, SUCKS. They may have an athlete or relay here or there that is good/nationally relevant, but the conference is terrible. Like I said before, most of the MAC couldn't even field a d3 national individual champion.

Not to mention NAIA. Malone is stronger than all MAC schools, except for maybe Kent State, and recently Malone has been getting stronger recruits than KSU, Akron, Miami, BGSU, and OU.