Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread

It just occurred to me, what if Kip has been registered for Boston 2012 only as a ruse, so some folks on LetsRun get preoccupied with trying to find him there (to monitor him) only to come up empty handed?

I don't see how he's gonna be caught/tracked in Boston. There's 20,000 people, he'll wear a disguise, and his bib number WILL NOT be visible before the start. How are you gonna find this guy? He may even hide out in a slower corral. Finding a friend that you're looking for there involves luck, finding a sneaky person that doesn't want to be noticed is next to impossible.

I've said it before - this guy is a ghost. He's beaten me in races (raceS, Plural!) that I had a faster 1/2 split than him at and didn't get passed by any runners afterward.

I think the best way to prevent him from cheating in Boston...again is to prevent him from getting into the race. Contacting the BAA or getting his BQ time stripped seem to be the most logical ways to do that.

I think he's more likely to be spotted at a smaller venue. Unfortunately, the smaller races typically have less safe guards in place to prevent cheating. And in most cases don't have a public list of entrants. I have a pretty good idea of which races he'll show up at if his goal is still to cheat his way to a sub 3 in every state as a masters.

for what it matters wrote:

It just occurred to me, what if Kip has been registered for Boston 2012 only as a ruse, so some folks on LetsRun get preoccupied with trying to find him there (to monitor him) only to come up empty handed?

There's a good chance that might happen. It happened at CowTown Marathon in Fort Worth, TX.

GK wrote:

I have a pretty good idea of which races he'll show up at if his goal is still to cheat his way to a sub 3 in every state as a masters.

unless he makes them up (just kidding)

ouch1000 wrote:

Just think of the good that could come out of this if Litton were to come clean (are you reading this, Kip?). If he were to reveal how he traveled around at Boston, Missoula or Vermont City while still hitting the mats, race directors could use that information to safeguard the integrity of future races. I see a nice rehabilitation possibility for Litton - kind of like Leonardo diCaprio's character (Frank Abagnale, Jr.) in Catch Me If You Can - if he were to reject his past and use his cunning to help nab cheaters. Perhaps there might even be some forgiveness....

+1

I think it will be great for the running community. Kip could be like a road race consultant. It kind of reminds me of Sam Antar(former CFO of CrazyEddie) and how he helps people catch the crooks (for white-collar crime)

ActuallyThisIsTheWayItIs wrote:

For those who have joined in on the bashing, we will not refute your RUNNING related claims so you need not respond. Being infantile, no doubt you will though.

This has rankled with me ever since I read it yesterday, I can't believe the incredible cheek and stupidity of someone who would say this whilst claiming the moral high ground. What is more infantile than the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears shouting "I can't hear you"?

You're an idiot pal.

ActuallyThisIsTheWayItIs wrote:

We will give you perspective from people who actually KNOW Kip. We are a group who have known him from 7 to 34 years. We have gotten to know Kip and his family intimately through business, church, school, running and other social circles. Many of the previous posts here can not be proved either way, so we will only speak to our personal experience with Kip.

We all have friends who we really like, but who do stupid things, or who have obvious character flaws.

Because they are our friends, we overlook these things, and justify them - if only because it is easier than facing the uncomfortable truth that a friend of ours is flawed (and if our friends are flawed, what does it say about us?).

Loyalty is admirable, but do not undervalue what is going on here. Just because this is about running, something you obviously do not understand, does not make it any less of a barometer of this guy's true personality.

I can believe he is an engaging, pleasant fellow, but do not let that cloud the facts. Please do not hide your head in the sand.

We are not "out to get" Kip, we just want an honest accounting of what appears to be a long pattern of systemic cheating. This is not a game of golf among friends where someone kicks the ball to a better placement, or takes a mulligan, of "forgets" a stroke here and there - this is straight up cheating - cheating strangers, ignoring the most basic rules of the game, and then publicly drawing attention to these entirely fabricated results. If a friend of mine where doing this, I would be very concerned.

kirkaz wrote:

for what it matters wrote:

It just occurred to me, what if Kip has been registered for Boston 2012 only as a ruse, so some folks on LetsRun get preoccupied with trying to find him there (to monitor him) only to come up empty handed?

There's a good chance that might happen. It happened at CowTown Marathon in Fort Worth, TX.

Wrong. I couldn't line anybody up to monitor him & the Cowtown officials were unwilling to do anything either. They said they'd rely on their enroute timing mats as a 'monitor'. That's their prerogative.

Interestingly, I received an email from Kip only minutes before the start of the Cowtown race, telling me he'd suffered an injury 2 days before and wouldn't be running in Ft Worth. I thought timing of his note to be yet another behaviorial stunt. And, of course, was happy nobody was wasting their time looking for him race day!

ouch1000 - helluva post buddy! In February I suggested he come clean - not so much to help future race directors but to somewhat minimize/mitigate the fallout that was sure to follow the story I planned to write at the time. He never responded, choosing to continue living a lie. I doubt he'll ever 'own up to what he's done' or explain why he did what he did.

what will happen if Kip never comes out?

Junk Master. I don't think your last comment is helpful, indeed it plays straight into the hands of his apologists. We have no evidence at all that outside of running that there is any question over his character.

DeeArena wrote:

what will happen if Kip never comes out?

He never will and Clarkston Kent will never write that article.

scotth wrote:

ouch1000 - helluva post buddy! In February I suggested he come clean - not so much to help future race directors but to somewhat minimize/mitigate the fallout that was sure to follow the story I planned to write at the time. He never responded, choosing to continue living a lie. I doubt he'll ever 'own up to what he's done' or explain why he did what he did.

Yeah - you're absolutely right. I know it's a pipe dream that he will realize the three points that follow.

1 - The sooner he comes clean and talks to the writer, the faster the running community will let this pass from the forefront of its consciouness,

2 - if he doesn't admit what he did to the reporter, it will continue to get worse for a very long time, and

3 - he really has a lot to offer the race organizer community that no-one else can - key information on how to get around the cheating safeguards; the incidence of cheating is far more widespread than most of us realize, according to directors of large races.

I offer this all up, of course, in hopes that Kip will read it, inwardly reflect and decide to speak in person to the guy writing the story.

I realize it's a long-shot, but stranger things have happened.

To Hacer Trampa: you're right as well - Clarkston Kent is not writing the article. A writer from a major national publication (2009 circulation was more than 1M) is in charge, and he has interviewed a wide range of people for the story, including CK, me, others who have submitted stuff to this thread and the original one from last year, race directors from a wide range of races, and lots of people he has mentioned to me but whom I don't know. I exchanged e-mails with him last week, and he is still uncovering interesting twists. I don't know for sure how much more info he needs, but from a paragraph he sent me, it looks like it is coming together. Although I don't think it is necessary, I know it would be worth Kip's time to have a face-to-face with the reporter, as I believe he is eminently fair and unbiased. He has never posted on the LR thread, he has made a strong, good-faith effort to get Kip to talk to him, and from other investigative articles of his I've read, he will report what Kip says.

Of course you are also right that Kip will likely never come out. I will remain hopeful, however, to the end, especially because those who have supported him maintain so stridently that he is really a good guy. If this is true, and beside his running dishonesty there exists a parallel thread of moral fiber, he may find some redemption and relief in the truth. Of course he may also admit what he's done purely for expediency.

2009 circulation was more than 1M)

That would include both RW and RT, logical places to print such an article. Looking forward to the article.

ouch1000 wrote:

To Hacer Trampa: you're right as well - Clarkston Kent is not writing the article. A writer from a major national publication (2009 circulation was more than 1M) is in charge,

this is true

I'd say repeatedly cheating in races speaks volumes about his character.

I mean, a grown man being disqualified for cheating and continuing to cheat again, and again.

Even making up races?

That's what we are talking about, right?

Denial ain't a river in Egypt.

I'd want to know if my dentist was engaging in behavior like this before I let him gas and drill me.

Junk Master, I'll say it again - we have no evidence at all that this is true. What this does is allow people to wriggle and say that if we are making up claims about him they personally know to be false then the running stuff is false too. We know that the evidence for the running claims is very strong but to someone who knows nothing about running this may not be apparent.

For what its worth I don't think it reasonable to arrive at the conclusions you have, for one thing people tend to get found out - as this thread illustrates.

Fell Runner wrote:

We know that the evidence for the running claims is very strong but to someone who knows nothing about running this may not be apparent.

I agree - let's keep it to running.

Has anyone successfully contacted the BAA official Barbara Sicuso yet to have Litton's registration revoked? If not, one of us needs to get off our duff and do it sooner rather than later. Is she still the head of registration for BAA? Surely these folks can be convinced to keep Litton out of Boston.