Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread

This was posted this morning in the MRT thread; I'll pass it along, so you all can judge for yourselves. There is a link to a photo that looks somewhat convincing to me.

The following is all a direct paste from the RWOL thread, posted by mr.bo:

"WHOA. I've been reading the whole thread on letsrun, and this is some story. But I didn't get personally touched by this. Until a bell went off last night, and I confirmed it this morning.

In November I ran the Marshall U Marathon at Huntington. Very nice race, but there were some issues with the results. They initially had the wrong top women in the half, and I noticed a couple odd things with top-20 marathoners. So I investigated a little, helped by photos posted at tristateracer.com (pictures taken at the start, about 4-5 miles in, and at the finish). I wrote to the race director, and he was very receptive, and things got fixed within a couple days. My finish was upgraded from 20th to 18th, and I was happy the mistakes were fixed.

This morning I looked at my note to the race director. I'll just quote myself here from the e-mail of 11/11/10, emphasis added:

"I looked at all the photos in Mile 5 and could not find David Kipling, bib 506. He had no chip time at the Half mark. He does cross the finish line at 2:56:25, but it looks like he didn't run the whole marathon. He might have switched to the half without going through registration, or perhaps he got hurt during the race and decided to move to the half. Nothing on him at Athlinks.com; 49-yr-old sub-3 guys don't just come out of the blue."

I just figured it was an honest mistake. RD corrected it and took Mr. Kipling out of the final results. (He doesn't appear in the half results, either.) No photo at mile 5. I haven't yet looked to see if 506 was at the start, but here he is jogging across the finish line with the 13-1/2 minute per mile half-marathoners:

http://digital-sports-images.smugmug.com/Sports/2010-Marshall-Marathon-Finish/14552801_7QiKa#1082401382_tdYVz-A-LB

. You can't see real close up, but we do have the black cap, dark glasses, and low-placed bib.

The timer and race director removed David Kipling from the results, so I don't have a hometown, but my note above indicates his age was listed as 49. This race was small and while we had timing chips, there was no chip mat at the start, so everyone just had gun time for results. I don't think there was any chip mat on the course either. Somebody who wanted to cheat could have just put their bib on and run the last half mile. If "Kipling" had run a couple hundred yards at my pace where they were taking pictures by the river near mile 5, he'd have gotten away with it.

I don't post on letsrun, but if anyone here does and wants to pass this story along, it's fine with me."

Good Lord.

Psychosis.

nice work paulski!

Per Athlinks -

Marshall University Marathon - David Kipling Male 49 Stuart, Florida.

Hasn't it been previously brought up that KL owns a place somewhere in Fla?? Perhaps this was an attempt to no longer use his hometown in MI??

The picture posted there says a thousand words...once again, thats our boy!! The more and more this goes on, the more unreal it becomes. I really don't know what to think at this point...NOTHING would surprise me.

Marathon Guide lists results for the Marshall U Marathon with David Kipling's 2:56 time. Hometown is listed as stuart, FL.

http://www.marathonguide.com/results/browse.cfm?MIDD=2207101107&Gen=M&Begin=1&End=100&Max=353

This guy is seriously nuts. He must be spending thousands on race entry fees and travel. He is not even trying to take credit for running these races (how could he with the fake names), no more fund raising either.

What is the possible resolution to this epic? This guys is obviously going to keep trying to cheat, and LR is going to keep finding out and trying to get him DQ'd.

Can he be stopped? Will he be confronted?

Reminder - kipster's real name is David Kipling Litton

WOW! Another DQ and semi-fake (well really actually fake) name. Another onion layer...

Well, I looked up the official 2010 USATF Rules for road racing. Gun time and your actually finishing place is your official finishing time and place, not chip time. Also see rules about displaying number. See below from rule 243 and 245:

Thus, technically speaking, one cannot be 'kipped' in a race by official USATF rules as you might have altered your race strategy if you knew someone were on your heels.

Rule 243: (Display of number rule)

3. Runner's identification shall consist of running numbers pinned securely on the front of each runner's uniform and displayed throughout the race. The registration list will contain each runner's name and running number.

4. Any competitor who has been found by the Referee and/or Jury of Appeal to have gained an unfair advantage by intentionally shortening the route of the race ("cutting the course") shall be immediately disqualified from the competition. See also Rule 163.6.

RULE 245

FINISH LINE RECORDING AND TIMING

1. Officials at the finish should record each number as the athlete completes the race, along with the athlete’s finish time. The order in which the athletes cross the finish line will be the official finish position.

2. The timers shall start their watches or timing devices at the flash/smoke of the pistol or approved apparatus or at the first moment a competitor crosses the start line, whichever happens first. False starts in road races should not be recalled.

3. The official time shall be the time elapsed between the start of the watches or timing devices resulting from an appropriate start signal and when the athlete reaching the finish line. ******The actual time elapsed between when an athlete reaching the starting line and finish line can be made known to the athlete, but will not be considered as official time.******

David Lip Kip Liping Litton wrote:

What is the possible resolution to this epic?

Can he be stopped? Will he be confronted?

He has been confronted. A resolution is being worked out. However, there's no timeline for resolution. Patience, grasshopper.

Will he be stopped? That question is impossible to answer. He could continue to cheat after getting 'outed'.

David Lip Kip Liping Litton wrote:

This guy is seriously nuts. He must be spending thousands on race entry fees and travel.

Wondering if he's spending the money he raises for charity on entry fees, air fare and hotels to support his cheating habit!

sure seems plausible. the "all proceeds to charity" generally means all profits after expenses are recouped (ie flights, hotels, entry fees, mid-race taxis)

Yes, that's Dr Litton! I. am. speechless. Wow. just. WOW! No photo near mile 5? Oh my. Most excellent find!

Maybe this has already been said, but is it possible that this guy was planning to write a book about this at some point and this was all part of a stunt? I just can't get my head around a "normal" person spending all this money, time and travel just to cheat in races. Using fake names doesn't even give him the opportunity to get recognition for success.

Good Lord, this is so freaking fun but kinda sad on the flip side.

Absolutely.

The people who pop up from time to time with "get a life" or similar interest me almost as much. I wonder whether they scour the internet assiduously for discussion topics they consider unworthy . . . . or possibly have ulterior motives. Anyone who runs seriously at any standard totally gets why the full extent of this man's cheating should be exposed.

Lone gunman wrote:

Well, I looked up the official 2010 USATF Rules for road racing. Gun time and your actually finishing place is your official finishing time and place, not chip time. Also see rules about displaying number. See below from rule 243 and 245:

Only races sanctioned by USATF are required to follow USATF rules. And of course, the vast majority of races are not sanctioned.

I think his MO is pretty clear. He starts at the back of the pack in order to avoid being bunched up with similar goal pace runners for the first few miles of the race. That way, no one will know that he cut the course because they did not see him out in front or along side of them until late in the race. Starting from the back of the pack also gives him a time buffer of a few minutes that come in handy because he has to jog easy until he can get to the point where he will cut the course or possibly meet up with an accomplice. The time buffer also gives him the ability to wait for the perfect opportunity to cut back into the race when there is enough spacing between runners that he won't be noticed easily or when a half marathon rejoins the marathon for the finish. He is a decent enough runner that he can look like he belongs when he jumps back in (i.e. run the appropriate pace, although he looks too fresh ala rosie ruiz). Now and then, he has to fake an injury or walk it in to avoid going sub-2:50 or finishing way out of line with his usual fake performances. Finally, starting at the back of the pack gives him an alibi if questioned at an awards ceremony. He simply claims that he was late to the start and had to weave like crazy to get up to speed.

The only way to settle this is to find a marathon that lets you confirm registrants, find Kip, have someone watch for him at the back of the back and video tape him as he jumps on and off the course.

i realize my analysis here is a little late (since the pattern of cheating has pretty clearly been established) but going back to his 17:47 (or whatever it was in his 5k Pr where he finished the race by walking)...

To understand how absolutely improbably this perfomance is consider this...when i walk at a brisk pace it takes me 15 min to cover 1 mile...he is not going at a brisk pace - so i will guestimate him at 20 mile per mile

assuming he walked as little as the last 400 meter...it would take him about 5 minutes to walk that distance. To get a 17:47 time he would have had to be at 2.9 miles in 12:47 (near world record pace - which if he had not walked to the finish line and maintained the pace needed to hit 2.9 miles in 12:47, he would have finished the last 400 meters in about :61 seconds giving him a finishing time of 13:48).

We don't know how far back he started walking...but you get the point - any amount of walking is going to seriously affect the overall finishing time - and therefore a PR performance is highly suspcious.

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I am glad Kip has been confronted - and really hope he changes his ways (and has not or does profit from this)...and maybe all of this has helped educate us all about the cheaters in our sport: how they do it and how we and race director can be proactive by looking for these behaviors and anomolies...like walking, late starts, number covering, etc.

Precious Roy wrote:

The only way to settle this is to find a marathon that lets you confirm registrants, find Kip, have someone watch for him at the back of the back and video tape him as he jumps on and off the course.

In the works.