Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread

The 'world record run' website is key to this whole thing. If it were a case of someone trying to achieve something unique,and running into problems and cutting corners to get there, that would be one thing. However, testing out methods under an alias sometime prior, this whole thing was planned, premeditated. That adds a whole different dimension.

off course Oscar wrote:

It won't help much, but I know the young man in 3rd place. He's a nice young man named Pat Webster. Unfortunately he wouldn't have seen anything because he finished in front of Teflon Litton.

If we're going to go the nickname route, might I suggest Kip "Chip Time" Litton?

Gotta wonder if the Brojo's have recieved any recent c&d type e-mails. If not, it is interesting considering his wife's profession.

Kevin52 wrote:

Lets take a look at what is possibly Kip's PR 5k race according to Athlinks.

There are photos at the start and finish.

I can account for all but Kip and one other kid.

Note that he has two shirts on to stay warm.

There's little reason to doubt non-performance here. You're supposed to run with your number visible at all times. I can understand some slack in a marathon where weather can change, but not in a 5K.

And the two shirts scheme gives it away. The weather had to be decent - everyone else has short sleeve shirts, singlets ... in fact some guys have no shirt.

Flags raised all around.

Sorry nerp, that's decent but I like mine more because nothing sticks to him, he's got at least one alias that we know of, and photos are so similar yet so different that he makes my head hurt:) And yes, I'm just funnin' with ya.

I don't care if my name ranks last, as long as he has to face justice and return all monetary amounts from races as well as charity. And for the record, I don't think it's about money as much as it is ego, but what I do know?

Flags raised? I would love a one-on-one with him. You hid your number for what reason Kip? NO ONE does that, no one. He flips it up at the end and then if questioned says I thought I would discard my shirt during the race but it ended up fine so I kept it on, hence covering my number. REAL tough to figure out. He's prepare with a laundry list of excuses.

I contacted the St. Louis marathon photo people about the cookies issues and he said it should be all fixed now. So if anyone wants to go through the lost and found section it should be working now.

Where's the link friend? I will do it.

Further observation - - sorry no smoking gun in this find, but if you look at his athlink results, all of a sudden his first sub 3 was at Jacksonville in 2006. I know the Jax course well. Plenty of potential 'opportunities' for someone should they want a shortcut.

Tell me if there is anything to indicate an impending breakout performance leading up: (Consistent 19-20 min 5Ks, and then a months later a 2:58??) The Naples 1/2 in 1:26 is the only possible indicator and that was almost a yr earlier. There are brightroom pix but nothing good. However, the gun to chip gap was over one minute. His 1/2M split was 1:26 which would have been a PR I think. It probably only takes a minute to clear the field in Jacksonville. It wasnt really big in 2006, no half marathon. It just smells funny..

Jacksonville Marathon/Half Marathon - Marathon FL 12/17/06 1/0 17/0 19/898 6:47 2:58:08

Detroit Free Press/Flagstar Bank Marathon 2006 - RUN - 5k MI 10/29/06 1/0 6/0 6/1523 6:11 19:15

Haunted Ghoul Run 5K - Run - 5K MI 10/28/06 1/0 8/0 8/53 6:14 19:23

Running Scared 5K - RUN:::5K MI 10/28/06 1/0 3/0 4/42 6:27 20:05

Uofm/Msu Tailgate Challenge 5K MI 10/7/06 6/0 21/0 21/348 6:16 19:31

Run For Scamp MI 9/23/06 2/0 3/0 3/88 6:21 19:44

Harvest Stompede - Run - 7Mi MI 9/16/06 1/0 9/0 9/171 7:06 49:45

Crossroads Village Huckleberry Hustle 5K MI 9/9/06 3/0 12/0 12/114 6:34 20:26

Crim Festival Of Races - Run - 10Mi MI 8/26/06 22/0 257/0 281/7602 6:40 1:06:41

Bauman's Charity 5K MI 8/17/06 6/0 26/0 29/355 6:19 19:39

Craig Greeenfield Memorial Triathlon - Duath :: Run 2Mi,Bike 16Mi,Run 4.4Mi MI 8/6/06 1/0 3/0 3/51 3:56.47 1:28:17

Kayla O'Mara Memorial 5K MI 8/5/06 5/0 52/0 55/597 6:22 19:48

Davison Festival Of Flags 5K MI 7/26/06 4/0 26/0 27/159 6:29 20:10

Tuuri Race Day - RUN - 5K MI 7/22/06 16/0 100/0 254/289 13:49 42:57

Ophelia Bonner Race - Run :::: 5K MI 7/19/06 2/0 2/0 2/34 6:45 20:59

Flint Journal Catch Your Breath Run - RUN : : 5K MI 7/8/06 4/0 18/0 19/286 6:31 20:16

St. Mark's 5K Run For Charity MI 6/24/06 4/0 7/0 7/36 6:21 19:44

Hartland Memorial Day Run - RUN:::5K MI 5/29/06 1/0 16/0 17/100 7:02 21:54

Run For Roots 4Mi MI 4/29/06 3/0 14/0 15/94 7:03 28:15

Naples Daily News Half Marathon 2006 FL 1/23/06 9/0 40/0 56/1173 6:34 1:26:03

off course Oscar wrote:

This is one time I wish my gut feeling was wrong, but that relay at the Freep keeps coming back to my mind and I.......well you know. Cheating and getting your teammates disqualified is despicable.

Care to clarify your gut feeling? Not really sure what you're meaning by this...

But let me say, the other four guys on the team are all quality guys, and all are quality runners. None of them knew of Kips cheating before or after the race. They were in disbelief, just as we were, that this had happened. I got the feeling none of them knew him personally. They were asked to be part of the team and some may have never met the guy.

I was the #2 runner on the team he cheated against. He almost got away with it. It took several days and over 100 emails between me, our team, their team, race officials and other runners and reviewing all of the missing photo's, until we had undisputable proof that he had cheated. (when you accuse someone of cheating you darn well better have your facts lined up!) Litton admitted to no wrong doing and denied it until the end.

Personally, I think he should be a man about it and come on here, admit he has a problem and come clean. And then get some help.

Dave

I looked this over before and the Crim performance sticks out a bit for a 19 high 5k guy. And that Naples half is worse - would be closer to 1:30.

Thanks for the link. I just did the first 60 pages thoroughly. Looking in the crowds and the race. I will continue on tomorrow. Have a good night.

Same hat as early Boston pics.

Sure I will Dave, and happily.

The Race for the Cure is for Cancer. I thinks it's pretty sad that if you're going to cheat that you would dishonor this great cause. I believe he cheated but don't have proof. So I am going by nothing more than gut feeling. I wish my gut feeling were wrong because of the above reasons.

I, and you, are going off nothing more than gut feeling combined with a ton of evidence of cheating in other races as far as the Race for the Cure goes. But unless you know something about that race in particular, then it's just circumstantial, hence a gut feeling. I can't do any better than that for an explanation.

As far as the guys on his team go, I said that I find it despicable that he would do that "cheating and getting your teammates disqualified is despicable".

Well done on your research and getting him caught and good job on winning the relay.

There's gun time ... and there's kip time! (And once this has all been solved, it's miller time?)

I was at the RNR AZ races today and they actually had an alphabetical printout of all those registered. I checked it out to see if the Kipper might be putting in an appearance. Unfortunately, he was not listed.

Lone Gunman - you're on the right track with this post and with your earlier one about the Sarasota Half Marathon.

This is the reason I asked earlier today when Kip's worldrecordrun.com website had started. It was a dubious excuse to claim that he started in the back because he earned more for charity, the more runners he passed during a race. If it could be shown that he started in the back well before that effort started, that excuse falls flat. And with the disguised back-of-the-pack starting tactics at the Deadwood Marathon now clearly demonstrated today, earlier races where he had a high start time coupled with a decent placing finish have to be considered highly suspect.

I had reviewed his athlinks.com list when I first learned about him several weeks ago and also thought that starting with the Jacksonville Marathon in 2006, things didn't make sense. A 2:58:08 marathon is equal to an 18:13 5K, using the RT calculator. His best 5K before that was a 19:11. Doesn't add up.

And it doesn't, upon checking the Jacksonville race. Start delay was 2:03 in a race of 900 finishers. Very few others started that far back. Full results with chip times here:

http://www.1stplacesports.com/jm06marres.htm

And I had also considered his faster half-marathon times suspect. Sarasota didn't either use or report chip times, but Naples did, as you pointed out. What about the 2008 Las Vegas half? 1:21:23 finishing time. Bingo - a whopping 4:44 start delay. Full results here:

http://results.active.com/pages/searchform.jsp?posted_p=t&numPerPage=25&page=2&rsID=73944&eventClass=HALF&queryType=division#VIEW

I haven't looked up the following, but I would bet that ALL of these are consistent with this pattern:

Boston Marathon 2009 MA - 4/20/09 2:54:55

Gasparilla Marathon 2009 FL - 3/1/09 2:56:39

Bayshore Marathon 2008 MI - 5/24/08 2:55:09

Boston Marathon 2008 MA - 4/21/08 3:01:01

Bayshore Marathon 2007 MI - 5/26/07 2:55:20

Boston Marathon 2007 MA - 4/16/07 2:58:45

I've already looked up Gasparilla 2008: 2:33 start delay; 22nd place (3:02:38) in a field of 989 finishers. More about this in my next post.

Hey Oscar, I went through the whole 150 pages but couldn't find him. There was a guy with a cap and his head down that I was suspicious about (page 116, pic 2387), but I punched the bib number of the girl next to him and got a better picture and saw that he wasn't our guy.

I could have missed him though, you never know.